Overcoming the Fear of Public Speaking with Michael Davis

Overcoming the Fear of Public Speaking with Michael Davis – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRAMSXOAdRY

Transcript:
(00:00) if you’re trying to please everybody who you’re really trying to please is yourself you have this need to please everybody you have to take a hard look at yourself and say why am I speaking when PE when I ask people why do you want to get up there and share a message oh I just love to speak it’s like nope that’s not a good reason it is not a good reason that is so egocentric look I’m speaking from experience when I first started it yeah I went into it cuz I had to save my job but I discovered oh I like the attention
(00:33) of the spotlight nobody cares that that’s what you want and they will today’s audiences are so sophisticated they can smell the egocentric speaker a mile away and they will not like it and you will not be asked to speak other places because word gets around especially if you’re in the professional World Meeting Planners talk and if you’re you’re that worried about yourself and you’re hard to work with they’ll word will spread if you’re there to serve your people and you’re not worried about how many people
(01:05) signed up for my newsletter or did I sell my books out just let all that go those are side benefits and those will take care of themselves if you’re giving a message that people can act on and walk away thinking wow if you did it I can too then you’re going to have an impact hello everyone and welcome to the flow over fear podcast where it is our mission to help you to rise above fear and realize your ultimate potential in leadership and life I’m your host Adam Hill and it is my goal to share with you
(01:42) the human side of high performance my guests share their experience with fear anxiety struggle Challenge and most importantly despite all of it how they Rose above it to achieve incredible results so if you’re ready to rise up let’s get started hey everyone welcome to flow over fear thank you so much for being here today I have a great guest today you know one of the fears that commonly shows up for people uh most often is the fear of public speaking and according to the National Institute of Mental Health
(02:17) 75% of people rank public speaking as their number one fear and this fear can also show up in large audiences or one-on-one all sorts of things like that my guest today Michael Davis works withs Business Leaders and entrepreneurs to attract more clients create e efficient teams and increase their influence through improved speaking skills his passion for his work was born when he was threatened with a job loss because of his poor speaking skills with the help of elite professional speakers he discovered how to become an influential
(02:51) presenter and Michael has trained speakers on five continents and worked uh and written seven storytelling books he’s a speaker a trainer and the founder of speaking CPR and he lives in Ohio with his partner Linda and the uh and the overlords of their house sky and Riley his super Chihuahuas welcome Michael and they are the overlords it’s it’s amazing with with pets that the it’s almost like the smaller they are the more energy and the more the larger the personality am I wrong about that oh
(03:25) you’re you’re right and sometimes I look at Linda and say the women in my life my partner my late mother they could ask me to do things and at times I’d say no my two dogs I do whatever they want I just don’t get it yeah yeah they get away with anything get away with murder what a great life it would be to be just a small dog my mother once told me she wanted to come back as a German Shepherd in a very wealthy house because that’s about as good as it gets that’s that’s about right that that sounds good so we
(03:57) all know what we’re striving for in our next lives but uh yes thank you so much for joining me today and um and I really want to dig into a lot of your story because I know you have a background with challenges with speaking and and learning how to do it so you went through your own thing now you train people to do it so I I you know one of the things I think of when I think of of this fear of speaking of getting on stage is there there was just this theme in the 80s like 80s sitcoms where everybody who had a fear of public
(04:26) speaking was supposed to was supposed to picture everybody in their underwear right is there any is there any legitimacy to that or any any any spark of Truth to that I I just have to ask yeah let’s just get that one out of the way and also let’s address what you open up with with a well-known statistic I’m not going to disagree with the statistic but what’s the statistic under the statistic it’s not public speaking we’re afraid of what we’re afraid of is public humiliation oh wow
(04:56) okay we also have a fear of walking into a room full of people we don’t don’t know so what is public speaking is the potential to be humiliated in front of a bunch of people we don’t know and I think that Taps into our earliest ancestors who being separated or ostracized from the group meant death still in our subconscious and that’s why we think we’re afraid of speak we speak every day it’s the underlying fear we have to be aware of that’s interesting and I’m glad you pointed that out the fear
(05:30) public humiliation and what what greater fear would there be than than an entire group of room that seems to be entire group of people that seems to be judging you so yeah I guess the question is is what what do what can we do to get beyond that number one is be aware of it number one it’s not the speaking you’re afraid of secondly and I say this half in Jess nobody has ever died because they gave a speech mhm there are some politicians in history who have been who have died while giving a speech but it wasn’t the
(06:02) speech that got him killed let’s get that one out of the way you’re not going to die you’re going to feel these nerves but the best way to handle it number one is to prepare and be ready and know your material so well that you’re not thinking about yourself you’re not thinking about am I going to stumble have problems embarrass myself guess what you’re going to say something you’re going to stumble you’re going to make mistakes and that’s actually good yeah it’s not good if you do it every 30
(06:32) seconds but an occasional stumble misstep or even looking at the audience and saying you know what I completely forgot what I was going to say can you help me out that humanizes you it lets them know that you’re there to serve them and not impress them but preparation by far just rehearse get feedback make adjustments don’t memorize now never memorize that’s because people who memorize look and sound memorized it’s not authentic that’s interesting so uh and and I like kind of a couple things you said there
(07:11) the the don’t memorizing part I want to put a pin in that and then and and also you know talk about that you know you know that that fact of what makes you human is is that stumbling aspect I um so it’s it’s it sounds to me that that you almost you know you almost want to uh in order to be authentic you want to kind of have those stumbles a little bit but not as often as you’re saying is that sound accurate it does I wouldn’t say you want them you just don’t want to be afraid of them they’re going to happen just roll
(07:44) with it now I have seen speakers who actually build in in a a mistake and it was as a speaker trainer it was so obvious to me what they were doing they lost all credibility with me I see I’ve seen some speakers who cry the exact same way at the exact same point in their story every time they tell it it’s like no you’re not fooling us it doesn’t feel real but just don’t be afraid of it just look you and I talking here we’re go I know I’ve made some mistakes already don’t sweat it it’s it’s real
(08:19) sure the difference between the memorable speaker and the forgettable speaker is the forgettable speaker is focused on what do they think of me yeah the unforgettable speaker is thinking what impression what impact did I have on them so it sounds like we are so we we so ultimately what some of the nature of our fear it sounds like can be due to the fact that we’re just focused on ourselves and what they’re thinking of us instead of delivering the message the best way we can serve the audience is that sound fair oh it’s
(08:55) absolutely Fair my first seven years of speaking when I was I got involved in this as you mentioned in the introduction back in 1994 I was a young financial adviser I was given the task of giving workshops to attract new clients into our firm and Adam they were bad I can still see the evaluations my boss thrust into my hands and at the end of that meeting that day he said you’re a lousy speaker your story suck and you’ve got 90 days to turn this around that’s when I discovered Toast Masters and I started to understand that
(09:31) speaking is a learnable skill what it took me seven years to figure out though is that I had a lot of fear insecurity self-esteem issues and I focused for those first seven years every time I spoke it was how’s this how’s the hair how’s the suit oh my gosh there’s a hair there shoes got to be polished and I I took it as a badge of honor when somebody would come up to me and say Michael you are so polished oh you’re so polished up there one day I’m in my office and I’m cleaning out my office and I’m dusting
(10:09) my desk and I look at the can of Polish and I realize something nothing sticks to polish oh my God my message isn’t sticking they remember how I look they don’t remember what I said I wasn’t a very good speaker so even seven years of going through a basic training like Toast Masters will give you that’s when I knew I had to deal with my insecurities and say okay you have to be willing to get up there and not worry about what people think of you focus on the message you’re giving them that changed everything so even after
(10:50) even after getting into Toast Masters you still had that insecurity and and you were still had a lot to work through so you were it was a learning process so what and what was the what was the big I guess the secondary transformation because you had the First Transformation of of realizing that you weren’t a great speaker you had that kind of moment uh where your your boss told you you go fix it fix it or you’re fired kind of thing yeah but uh later on how did how did you how did you transform into something
(11:19) that that delivered a message that stuck well that polish what I call and I call it the Endust moment which was was a can of Endust polish just so happened to go to a Toast Masters meeting one day and they I wasn’t scheduled to speak if you know anything about Toast Masters you go and they have scheduled speakers each day well all the speakers that day didn’t show up and the person who was in charge of the meeting was panicked she said Michael we need a speaker today could you please do it please please
(11:45) you’re one of our more experienced members and my first thought was no way yeah I’m not ready I didn’t dress right all that went through my head and then I remember the Polish incident I thought okay maybe this is the universe test ing me out mhm so I stood up gave this story sat down immediately started berading myself oh my God I can’t believe you said that that was so stupid how could you weren’t prepared that was awful this is going to be the worst evaluation ever in Toast Masters you get an
(12:15) evaluation yeah my person my friend Chris stood up and said you are different today I’ve never seen you be more authentic than what you did today you didn’t sound rehearse practice or polish keep doing what you just did I had to exper getting the inside as one issue got got great nothing sticks to polish then I had to go up and prove to myself in a high stress moment for me because I wasn’t prepared it was completely contradictory to everything I had been talk to that point that it’s okay and once I realized that through
(12:58) experience it got easier and easier to get up there and stop worrying about me and focus on them wow that’s so and and with that in mind how how do you approach preparedness I mean so so there’s this fine line it sounds like with regard to you don’t want to memorize what you’re going to talk about but you want to know the content so well so how do you how do you present it in such a way that you are being authentic and and really putting yourself out there in terms of of of uh of getting the Conta content
(13:33) that the audience needs I want to make sure when I create this the presentation and this doesn’t matter if it’s five 25 or 55 minute talk is I want to get the flow down I would start with what is the main message I want people to walk away with what’s one sentence that captures my talk and I want to weave that throughout the presentation everything that goes into the talk has to support that message my stories my statistics my facts my research case studies doesn’t matter has to support that or else it goes yeah
(14:07) once I have that body in place then I figure out how am I going to open this to orient the audience to the message I also have what’s called a big promise at the opening what are you going to get as an audience from this and then I conclude it so I develop it in a different order than I created but once I’ve got that created and it’s in its order I then practice in chunks M and I never memorize two reasons we don’t memorize number one is you sound memorize you just don’t sound real secondly what we
(14:41) write is different than how we converse so each practice should actually be a little different than the previous version because the more you internalize which is what we aim for internalize the flow each practice should be more and more how you speak conversationally just like you and I are doing now yeah yeah but we write differently than we sound in conversation so a lot of people say to me well I can’t remember what I was supposed to say good because that’s your subconscious telling you this is how you
(15:17) say it okay a great practice tip if you’re ever getting stuck in a certain part and you’re you’re rehearsing and you’re going over it if you can’t get past that point and it keeps happening in the same spot to me that’s an indication that you are not it’s not written the way you speak so what you do is if you’re with a friend you just have a conversation or you can just turn on a recording device and say what am I trying to say here forget the fancy written version what am I trying to say whatever comes out of
(15:49) your mouth is typically how you should change that part of the script I gotcha so so we’re really instead of starting with a full-on written out script as I’m understanding you want to get the flow you want to know what what your key points are and then as you rehearsing that you’re just rehearsing it kind of you’re rehearsing it essentially speaking it not not reading off of a draft and trying to trying to do that so so it’s knowing those key topics that’s that’s fascinating and yeah go ahead I
(16:21) was just to say rehearse in chunks which give you an example let’s say we got a 25 minute talk break it into five minute chunks and here’s why we want to do this most people when they pre they’re practicing they will start rehearsing and as life often does three or four minutes into the rehearsal guess what phone rings yeah dog starts barking baby starts crying we go take care that when we come back and start the rehearsal again where do we P typically start yeah back to the beginning right so we get
(16:54) really good at that first five minutes but the rest of it doesn’t get the attention so when I say break it in chunks you do is you do a five minute portion yeah next time you rehearse do the next five minutes then the next and if you got 10 minutes do whatever but constantly give each part of the presentation equal attention I gotcha yeah okay and that makes sure from start to finish you’re compelling and you’re authentic yeah that’s interesting and I I know um you have a lot as far as where where you
(17:24) train people and you have this great you know 52 storytelling insight that you that you send out every week uh to people for free and it’s it’s great I’ve been a subscriber for a little while now since I met you and and so storytelling is a big part of what what you do can you kind of tell us and expand on what the importance of Storytelling is to a lot of what we’re speaking on and what we’re preparing yes it’s a it’s an excellent question because it is such a popular topic today
(17:55) here’s what and again one person’s opinion I believe we tell stories for two main reasons number one is to give other people hope yeah your talk for example about how you came from where you were years ago to being a triathlete a worldclass triathlete if you were just to stand up there and tell us you’re a triathlete people that’s good for you but when you bring in that early part of your life when you were struggling with all these issues and then you got to this now it’s relatable you’ve given us
(18:26) hope the other part of story telling us to generate emotion because ultimately when we’re telling stories in business is to let people know that you can solve a problem for them well they’re not going to listen to you unless you generate some type of emotion you know I encourage if you’re watching this do not make the mistake that I did for years in the National Speakers Association for years I would hear this phrase if you want to make money in speaking and you want to connect with an audience you got to get
(18:59) them laughing one minute and crying the next I have a problem with that advice I typically can get a lot of laughs in the speech I’m not the kind of speaker that gets people crying so for years I believed I could not be a professional speaker because that’s not my style right I tried it for about six months and all the feedback I always got was this sounds canned it sounds rehearsed Michael I feel like you’re trying to manipulate me H and I was because that’s what I had heard well then I heard a speaker one day world
(19:34) champion speaker say there are six common emotions happiness anger sadness surprise disgust and fear his name is David Brooks and he said if you tap into at least one of those or a combination you will generate emotion in your audience and once I heard that it was like the Seas parted and like oh my gosh I can do this because I have plenty of stories with sadness fear surprise disgust happiness anger I got those right and that’s when it started to change for me as far as the impact of the stories but that’s the main reason
(20:15) it’s to let people know in in business we tell stories like I’m a presentation skills trainer I go to people who who tell me I’m really struggling because I stand up in front of my team at work and I’m getting no response I’m not having an impact they’re not afraid of speaking but they’re frustrated one of the emotions that they’re not getting the results they should be the chairman of the board the CEO stands up and gives a talk and the troops are uninspired and they’re like
(20:48) why am I doing this they have to speak well you don’t have to not have an impact you learn how to tap into those emotions and and the way we do that is through our stories and I’m going to go back to yours for a moment such an inspirational story of being at these low points in your life dealing with all the the issues you did which are Universal and through a series of action taking new Steps A New Perspective it doesn’t matter that you’re a triathlete now in the rest of the world is most of the rest of the
(21:23) world isn’t that’s not the important part of your story it is that you overcame that hurdle and that’s what we want to know is how did you do that right right or as I like to call it the when Harry metally moment when the audience says I’ll have what she’s having for those of you that don’t know that just look it up on YouTube it’s a very funny clip it’s great I love I love that I love the fact that that was totally I totally unrehearsed in in and of itself actually so it demonstrates
(21:54) your point yes it was well yeah so so and and so yeah at the beginning there you you talked about you know how you’d heard in NSA um which is National Speakers Association not National Security Administration I I got that one confused when I first got into this shame but uh um uh that that you know you’re told that you want to make people laugh one minute and cry the next is that still our goal we just want to do it authentically yes if you could get people to laugh it makes a huge difference I was just at the and you
(22:26) bring up a good point we have to watch acronyms we get caught up in our language I should have known better than to say just NSA I was at the National Speakers Association conference just this past weekend and I noticed that the Hall of Fame speakers all had a common trait they make us laugh but right on the back end of the laughter is a valuable Point ah okay yeah so making people laugh opens their brains up to being ready to hear the message but okay a lot of speakers who aren’t at that level Force humor they this is again one person’s
(23:04) opinion Adam do not tell jokes in speeches the old rule of thumb in speaking was it wasn’t the underwear it was open with a joke worst thing you can do yeah for a couple of reasons number one what if it isn’t funny jokes today got to be so careful because you might offend people number three it might leave people thinking what does that have to do with the topic M and the fourth is because of Technology we’ve got YouTube we’ve got Tik Tok we can get all the humor we want there now that’s not to say don’t be
(23:41) funny it’s to say do not tell jokes for jokes sake our lives are full of humor if we’re willing to look at them in a funny lens the humor is in our stories got it okay that’s fasc that that’s so helpful and and to me somebody who you know um who I I think I’m funny right and um and you know maybe it doesn’t always come across that way but I uh uh certainly my audience here probably knows better than I do on that but I but yeah the idea of forcing humor I almost think to myself the only way
(24:18) that I can be entertaining is to make sure that I’m adding humor in there but what I’m hearing here is just make it more intentional make it make it so that it’s part of the story to keep that entertainment going but don’t Don’t Force It Don’t just tell a joke to say Hey you know why did the chicken cross the road you know has nothing to do with it so um that that that makes a lot of sense so and is that true for all of the emotions like if you if we’re trying to invoke something sad obviously we don’t
(24:47) want to just tell a sad story make people upset and sad for sadness sake but we want it if we tell it about you know a story that’s relevant that’s sad to evoke an emotion and then bring a point home does that work in the same way is that something we we can use similar yeah we have to be very careful with sadness though because if we bring sadness into a story and we don’t bring the audience up out of that we’re going to leave them down got and that’s not a good result we want them now that’s not to say that all of
(25:21) our stories have to end like Disney right in fact sometimes they don’t I think the best stories and the best speeches do not necessarily leave us feeling on an up note in the sense that we’ve answered all their questions I think the best speakers actually disturb us disturb Us in the sense that if if you’re going to go listen to a speaker and you walk out the same person you were at you are at the end that you were at the beginning speaker didn’t do a very good job because a speaker’s job is to get
(25:58) get people Disturbed enough to want to change something yeah right because we don’t change unless we’re Disturbed if we’re 100% comfortable and life is just great How likely are we to change anything right the greatest moments of achievement in our lives come out of something that is a problem a real challenge that we didn’t think we could overcome and that’s what the best speakers do in fact they leave you with more questions than answers hm that’s interesting yeah so um and and I guess
(26:33) when those questions come up then then we’re our job as speakers then is to answer those in in terms of give give them an opportunity give them an opening to to find more about those answers in other words that that that’s where you get in touch with with you or get in touch with the the speaker or get in touch with or if you’re giving a presentation that’s where we make the investment or call or get addition information and um so your and and your primary so talk to us a little bit about who your who your target is you’re
(27:08) you’re looking at like leaders Executives people like that that want to improve their presentation style what is the what is that person um before you talk with them and what are you hoping to to make them after you talk with them it’s usually CEOs company leaders entrepreneurs who have to stand up and get presentations on a pretty consistent basis could be to the the board of directors potential investors prospective hires they have to stand up and give those presentations they do it they’re not afraid of it they may not love it
(27:41) but they’re not they’re not afraid of it but they’re not getting the results their ideas are not getting pushed through they’re not getting Buy in they’re not attracting more clients they’re not getting the right people on board and they don’t know why typically it’s because their message suffers from what we call sameness there’s nothing compelling about it that Taps into that hope or all those emotions to let people know hey we do have a solution for you we can help you overcome that
(28:16) problem again whether you’re the board of directors your prospective clients your potential higher EES they all have their reasons for looking to you the speech should answer that yes and by the way a speech especially a keynote should not tell them how that’s done MH it should show them this is possible because that’s not the place to get into the mechanics of how you do that it’s to give them the big picture hope I see that’s that’s um that though that’s that’s a that’s sounds that’s an
(28:45) important point because there’s a lot of breakout groups you know in in all of these conferences where we hear a lot of how-tos like here are the mechanics of how to how to create the right kind of process for this individual thing blah blah blah and that I mean that seems to attract a person that’s looking to I need to create a process on this specific thing right now but it’s not transformational and you and and and we tend to hear the transformational talks you know at the on the keynote stage um
(29:15) you know where where people are speaking or in the boardroom where people are pitching and and all that kind of stuff so what what is the key difference there I mean is the difference that we’re with that we’re telling a story that gives hope and we’re invoking that emotion and that is that the primary difference we’re looking at there it’s both of those item plus it shows what’s Possible shows what’s possible here’s where we are today here’s where we could be now the Gap is the how to that’s not the
(29:43) point of that’s that’s big speech yeah the how to the Gap is filled in the followup breakout sessions the trainings the one-on-one coaching gotcha okay none of it no speaker on this planet even Les Brown who was thrilling to to see this week and sit five feet from for part that was kind of cool Rory was there Rory Vaden and cool that as great as they are they’re not going to change lives in 45 minutes they’re there to show you what’s possible and I’m paraphrasing this Rory has this phrase that my me my coaches
(30:24) often quote is that you are uniquely qualified to help the person you used to be I’m paraphrasing what Rory said but that’s powerful yeah and that person you used to be can be similar to everybody sitting in that audience in front of you to say here’s what’s possible then they’ve got to take the next steps yeah yeah that so I I and and and that’s one of my favorite quotes by the way that comes out of Rory vad mouth my favorite just the fact you know because one he said said that that’s
(30:58) that’s the moment really I signed up for brand builders Group which is you know where the the group that Rory Vaden runs that you know we’re part of but um because that that ultimately solidified you know who the audience is that I wanted to help why I wanted to start this program and it and in that way that simple statement that simple message is it which doesn’t give you a how-to but it’s transformational I mean it transformed the way it shaped my business and um so but doesn’t it also
(31:28) make you see yourself very differently it’s like wait a minute I have come a long way yeah yeah absolutely it is so easy it’s so powerful yeah oh no no please yeah no in today’s world where everybody’s a Critic and I was just talking with a friend of mine this morning she’s a dynamite leader in in helping companies develop trust she she pointed out this that narrative we tell ourselves that is usually pretty negative we need to occasionally step back and say wow look where I was here’s where I am and there are many
(32:06) people on this planet if you’re a speaker a leader who are where you used to be the old you and they need the current you to show you how you got here and you can do it save them a lot of steps yeah here are the landmines that I wish I would have avoided and hopefully if they’re open-minded enough they’ll listen to you don’t do it with your kids cuz you know Dad you’re stupid just you don’t know nothing I get that a lot yeah yeah if you want to get good practice with critics have kids that’s
(32:38) the way to work it out yeah or Chihuahuas I mean you know Chihuahuas do it too oh yeah Chihuahua well they do wag their tail sometimes when I practice a speech that’s right that’s the best feedback oh man yeah if only the all the audience had tales that would be just the perfect audience that’ be great you just know right they like it they like it or no tails between the legs oh man I got work to do so so I mean that and that brings up an interesting point I mean how do we we have this feere of critics where it’s
(33:11) like we’ll we’ll we’ll give the the critic 10 times more you know of our attention than we will the the people that like us so how do we deal with that mindset and how do we deal with the critics in general so that we can so that we can keep pushing our message forward and make sure that we’re big being as attentive as possible is there a way to discern between like if that feedback is is useful or if it’s not how how do we look at that that’s a terrific question because feedback can be so damaging if we’re not
(33:41) careful keep in mind people who give you feedback unless they’re just total jerks yes they are out there there are many people who are well- intended as I learned a long time ago Adam there are two types of people who can give you feedback one is the person who has emotions which is everyone everybody can tell you how your speech or Story made them feel second is the people who are highly qualified to tell you how to improve that’s a much smaller number of people and keep this in mind if you’re watching
(34:15) this there is no one way to be a great speaker or fabulous Storyteller and anybody who tells you there is run it struck me this weekend at the National Speakers Association there were five Hall of Fame and duct five very different styles MH and throughout the whole weekend you could watch different styles appeal to different parts of the people in the audience but they’re all Highly Successful People sure and this is it it’s important with your question is you got to be comfortable with who you are and that takes a long time it took
(34:53) me over seven years just to start to deal with insecurity and fear so shorten that process number one remember when you’re getting feedback that’s all it is it’s an opinion number two think like a politician what that means is and with some exceptions to this rule if you get 50 1% of the population to vote for you typically that’ll get you elected what does that mean 49.
(35:21) 9% of the people may not like you at all so remember this just based on the way you look because whether we like it or not human beings at our base level we will make snap judgments on People based on the way you look some people might immediately not like you yeah you know what that’s their stuff not yours if you’re there authentically with an authentic heart that says I’m here to give you value to serve you the people who can’t see that they’re not your audience and they’re sitting out there in every group you will ever talk to to
(35:58) mhm and I I meet people and and I typically don’t work well with these folks who are there because they want the love and they want the acceptance I’ve learned I’ve become a little you know I just turned 60 this year so my skin is thicker I get it if you don’t like me it’s nothing personal it’s just sometimes personalities I don’t want to sound like I’m on a soap box but I kind of am is I’m trying to tell you this you not just you Adam but you’re watching this there are people who aren’t going
(36:30) to like you for whatever reason it’s their stuff not yours be authentic give your message the people that need to hear it will hear it the rest of them either it’s not the right time or they just weren’t the people for you let them go I like that L people out there you will impact yeah I like I like that a lot and would would you say that it’s fair to even really is it so then is it about just focusing on the audience focusing on the the audience that you want to serve not pleasing everybody is is it is that a
(37:07) true statement that that that if you’re trying to please everybody you’re pleasing nobody yes I think if you’re trying to please everybody who you’re really trying to please is yourself you have this need to please everybody you have to take a hard look at yourself and say why am I speaking when PE when I ask people why you want to get up there and share a message oh I just love to speak it’s like yeah nope that’s not a good reason it is not a good reason that is so egocentric look I’m speaking from
(37:42) experience when I first started it yeah I went into it because I had to save my job but I discovered oh I like the attention of the spotlight nobody cares right that’s what you want and they will today’s audiences are so sophisticated they can smell the egocentric speaker a mile away and they will not like it and you will not be asked to speak other places because word gets around especially if you’re in the professional World Meeting Planners talk and if you’re you’re that worried about yourself and you’re hard to work
(38:12) with they’ll word will spread if you’re there to serve your people and you’re not worried about how many people signed up for my news letter or did I self my books out just let all that go those are side benefits and those will take care of themselves if you’re giving a message that people can act on and walk away thinking wow if you did it I can too then you’re gonna have an impact yeah I I love that that’s so helpful um and and specifically the part where you know you’re you’re saying that if you’re
(38:47) out if you’re trying to please everyone you’re only trying to please yourself that’s such a great great spin on it because it it it it makes absolute sense um and so getting into your process on how you’re training people what kind of what what do you what do you tend to walk people through if you could describe how you work with your clients how what do you walk them through well first we do is we do look at the mindset and now that might be a five minute conversation because I could tell fairly quickly if somebody has issues
(39:18) and and typically the folks who hire me that’s not the problem however with that said we do give them some physical and mental exercises to go through before they speak we show them how to prepare and and I don’t have scientific research on this atam I’m just making the number up but I believe 75% of managing nerves is preparation if you go through that speech over and over again make adjustments and it gets conversational by the time you hit that speaking platform you’re going to be okay whatever anxiety is there is that that
(39:49) you’re going to manage and massage and make work for you to give you that energy that you need when you’re speaking in front of a group so that’s the first part second is to get clarity on the message what is it you want people to walk away with and what is that one either thought feeling or action you want them to take a lot of I’ll say and I’m sorry to up that that part is so so hard too that getting Clarity you think it’s easy you think you know what your message is and then you start digging in and you’re
(40:22) just like wow at least for me it’s like wow I’m in so many different directions here I really need to focus on this through line but yeah feels so it feels so difficult sometimes so that’s a hard process you’re not kidding and that is the hardest part of it however once you get that in place everything else Falls in line yeah yeah we use this concept called the foundational phrase and I’ll use an example I have one presentation it’s sell more with stories pretty clear outcome if you want
(40:49) to sell more tell stories now there’s a lot to that every subo that I make in there has to support the IDE IDE of sell more with stories MH my story about my boss telling me you’re fired if you don’t do doesn’t go into that presentation because that’s not a storytelling I’ve got a whole different presenta story about the night I discovered the power of story that goes in there wow my opening sets up that point my research sets it and my conclusion all ties around that one idea sell more with stories huh yeah that
(41:26) that’s and so the idea of of of not including one of your core stories which is that transformational moment that you had doesn’t even go in there it’s almost I mean that’s like an example of we have to kill our darling sometime to make sure that the message resonates or put them in another basket yeah or bassinet we let that baby go over there and don’t get rid of it in fact I was having a conversation with the woman I mentioned earlier and she reminded me of a story I haven’t told in a long time
(42:00) about the first time I ever thought about being a speaker and I wasn’t ready because I talk myself out of it oh so I was 25 years old and I I didn’t have the self-confidence the self-esteem to be able to do it and that’s one of the few regrets I have in life is I wish I had the strength of character to listen to that voice that doesn’t go into that presentation it doesn’t fit there it goes into another speech M yeah that’s and and that’s and did finding that confidence finding that self-confidence
(42:34) did that just come with with reps did it come with Toast Masters Community rep rep repetition well and Toast Masters was a great start I I eventually got into the National Speakers Association and it’s just standing up in front of audiences and discovering what works what doesn’t yeah the line that you thought was funny in that story doesn’t go over the audience is telling you something don’t don’t think oh my gosh I’m terrible I’m not funny no it just didn’t work yeah and you test and you keep in
(43:07) mind also that what once worked may not work anymore stories and speeches are Evolution but it’s constantly being willing to get up there here’s a great tip for you if you’re up there and you’re presenting ask yourself this question when you’re done speaking first question should be what did I do well not why did I screw that up oh how could I be so stupid not good questions to ask I’m not saying don’t evaluate yourself but in the reason you do this it isn’t just a touchy feely activity by
(43:46) the way it is to take away to bring down some of that emotion if you’ve made some mistakes or you’ve forgotten you’ll get to those let’s start with what did I do well yeah it might be I didn’t pass out great give yourself check on that I I followed my format excellent I didn’t fall off stage whatever it is right I’m only being half serious here but find everything you can and list it as soon as you can then when you go to now here this is very careful wording what could I do better next
(44:23) time not what did I screw up why am I so stupid why did I do that because these are questions I’ve heard people ask and I asked myself years ago those are not effective questions what could I do better next time when you ask that first question it takes the emotional temperature down you’re not as harsh on yourself that’s great every speech no speech should ever sound the exact same way two times in a row I don’t believe I believe every time you give it it becomes more and more part of you which
(44:59) means more of you the conversational you comes out plus every time you give it you’ve had new life experiences that are going to change your perspective they may be very slight they may be big but it should be a different speech each time because it’s evolving just like you are yeah I I love that the that that it’s an evolving it’s an evolving thing it’s constantly getting better if it’s the same speech over and over again it’s really not not getting better and the goal is to get better and to improve
(45:28) that message for everybody I and I love the questions that you asked there because we are our own worst critics I mean we can take ourselves off the stage more quickly than any other critic that might be out there in the peanut gallery oh absolutely yeah yeah two follow-up ideas for you there too number one is when people come up to you and they’re well-meaning and they say Adam that was great great job all right it feels good for about a split second and then there’s a follow-up question what about
(46:01) it was great yeah we need to ask those questions and it’s not again just to make us feel good they’re giving you on the spot audience feedback they’re giving you research but you got to ask the right questions what specifically made it great and if they can tell you then you’re getting valuable research if they can’t tell you they were just being nice yeah yeah but we want to know because here’s the challenge we all have as presenters whether it’s speeches internal meetings or sales
(46:36) presentations we think we know the most powerful part of our talk because it’s important to us but when we’re willing to ask them for feedback they may give us answers we didn’t expect and if we don’t know that we’re missing the boat on the next time we present so listen carefully one of the best suggest questions I ever got because I record audio record all my presentations is leave the microphone on after the speech capture those words that people say to you because then you get that speakers High afterwards you’re
(47:10) feeling good people are coming up and if you don’t get those responses captured you might forget half of what people said but leave the microphone on oh wow interesting okay see what they’re saying to you yeah the other big suggestion is record yourself and watch it man that’s hard yeah well what do you think most people tell me when I suggest that to them no way no way and I ask them why and they usually say because I don’t like the sound of my own voice and I don’t like how I look and I said well
(47:46) I understand that sentiment but let me tell you what my first coach told me I said to him Darren I ah God I just I hate that I don’t like to look at myself I don’t like to hear myself and he said oh really that’s too bad guess what we had to watch you right yeah okay point taken and he brings I it’s funny he’s a comedian originally he said if you’re not willing to watch yourself how can you dare ask other people to watch it yeah yeah pretty good point it’s like right yeah really it really isn’t and I would I you
(48:26) know I’ve gone through that having done this podcast for well over 100 episodes now and and and I first many episodes I did not watch or listen to back because I was like oh I just don’t want to listen to myself it’s kind of a weird thing to watch your own show or listen to your own show but the reality is when I started doing that a a couple things happened a you know I learned a few things obviously I learned some of the things I could improve upon the better ways I could ask questions or the BET
(48:53) better things and the second thing was that I actually learn to like the sound of my voice and I know that sounds kind of cre kind of creepy and weird but no it’s not at all you have to be comfortable with yourself absolutely and you start to become that way when you start to give yourself a little more grace and understand that we’re right going right back to where we were at the beginning where it’s being comfortable making some Being Human making some of those mistakes that that’s okay and that
(49:22) that that makes the show compelling and worthwhile and we can do that and I I I I feel like I I I really uh resonate with what you’re saying there on the speaking front because I think it could make us better speakers too and I I value that opinion well what you said is so important you have to be willing to say after you listen to or watch yourself you know I look pretty good there yeah that’s not there’s nothing wrong with it what’s wrong is if you were to listen to your own voice and say hey that guy man
(49:53) that’s the best voice I’ve ever heard he’s got it going on oh my gosh he’s untouchable right no no we have to be willing to look at ourselves and say you know that person that I’m watching is actually pretty good yeah yeah and here’s how that person can improve you got to look at it almost like you’re sitting in the third row of the audience and ask yourself those questions yeah if I was in the audience and I didn’t know this which is hard to do because you got to turn your own
(50:19) brain off for what you know but would I want to continue to listen to this person would I be intrigued what I buy into what they’re selling yeah whatever idea that is that takes time but you will get over that hump and I I promise you if you get past that that’s the fastest road to growth because when you start to get feedback after that you can go watch it oh that’s what they meant yeah well that’s such a great powerful point because now when we’re opening ourselves up to to giving ourselves caring and and
(50:53) and graceful feedback we’re actually opening our El up to other people as well and I think in that case you know we’re closing down our our our ego and it feels at least in in that aspect that that’s shutting us down from getting the right kind of feedback on both sides so well it is it’s also showing Grace to others and and giving them respect because they’re taking the time to give you feedback don’t discount it by saying oh I’m not that good you’re actually insulting them yeah
(51:22) yeah but one of my favorite examples from from giving feedback with with video is I’ll say to somebody say you and I working together say Adam that was a great point however you didn’t give us enough time to think about it and most people’s initial thought is well yeah I did I paused a long time because a pause on stage feels about a hundred times longer than it is in reality so I’ll say look I’m not going to argue with you we’re going to put this video on we’re going to put on One
(51:50) X all right we’re not doing 2x here I’m going to show you how long you paused and it’s usually like a Split Second and I’ll be like oh my gosh I didn’t mhm when you can see it with the feedback or hear it you you correct it so much faster wow yeah that’s that’s so true yeah when you’re when you’re on stage and and yeah I’ve looked at so many of my videos where I’m like man I rushed through that so so quickly yeah so so true so you so you’re so your processed with with
(52:21) working with people you start with their mindset and then because and then you get into kind of that Clarity of the message you work through the clarity of the message and then um and then how do you kind of anything else you do on on yeah we do once we get clear on the message and how we’re going to support then we work on the stories which are the memorable Parts which creates the entertainment but the message has to be behind it and then the last part we work on is delivery I tend I found over the years
(52:49) that I’m in the minority when it comes to this I believe you have to work on message first I think there’s a misconception out there that so much of speaking is delivery I’ve watched people on YouTube with their YouTube channels with lots of viewers who get on there and say uh it’s mostly about the delivery I disagree if you want a message that sticks and leads people to make change you better have a message they’re both equally important but I’ve seen far too many speakers who get up there and wow you with their
(53:24) delivery and I couldn’t tell you an hour later what they said yeah I’d rather have somebody who’s a little more subdued that has a message that makes me think you know there’s this thing in speaking where people love the standing ovation it’s the most overrated part of speaking to me the ideal conclusion to a speech would be if I get up there I give my talk and when I walk off you can’t hear a sound in that audience because I left people thinking and considering the implication of my message to their lives that to me would
(54:01) be the ultimate far more than any Standing Ovation wow because the standing ovation yeah I know some people say it’s about the audience I do believe it’s more about the speaker especially if I want to get standing ovations well then you’re thinking about yourself sure yeah yeah I’ve had some people argue with me on that like you’re not going to change my opinion on that if that’s your goal you’re too self- focused yeah yeah yeah it’s got to be about what’s that impact we’re leaving on them I yeah I love that
(54:31) I mean I I I love that idea because well how great would it be taking Rory vaden’s example is if you could if you could see people starting their career starting their path serving the people that they once were because you once said from stage one sentence that stuck with them yeah so powerful yeah y That’s it well than yeah thank you so much for for for delivering all of that message today and you have 52 storytelling insights that you deliver on your on your um uh on your newsletter which people can sign up for can they sign up
(55:06) for that on your on your website yeah it’s uh just you do that go to speaking cpr.com you can sign up on the homepage or you can just go to 52 storytelling tips.com and what happens is you get a five minute weekly audio comes right to your email inbox got a PDF trans uh transcription mhm and also in the tips it’s not just information I’m sharing it’s also links to other resources in the story tellings you people I’ve followed over the years terrific insights that you can get from them but
(55:39) it’s a way to slowly add one new skill on top of another rather than shooting a fire hose of information at you that’s amazing and and it is really great I am a subscriber to that it uh it it’s such valuable information to get once a week I mean so I I say highly suggest highly suggest it and people if if they want to reach out to you for coaching or anything like that just go to your website is that right you do that or you can just contact me Mike atsp speaking cpr.
(56:07) com Mike atsp speaking cpr.com well I was I was so fortunate to meet you at a recent speaking event and uh and and you know see you backstage and talk with you and learn more about you I’m excited to see where your journey goes from here because you’re helping so many people with something that a lot of people struggle with and I know that I’ve gone through it myself so thank well I had the same feeling cuz I got to go before you so I got to watch your presentation and I loved how you just lit up the stage and you’ve got
(56:35) such a compelling story again your challenges not everybody has the same challenges you have but what you went through underneath those challenges and overcoming those internal obstacles again the fact that you’re a tri is it triathlete or Iron Man I can I always mix those two both the same thing Tri and Iron Man all right I’m not doing that but I’ve got my own version of that and every person does and that’s your inspiration hope so thank you for having me on here today keep doing this podcast
(57:07) you’re helping a lot of folks and keep getting that message out there because we need it thank you you likewise and I appreciate it isir and uh anything you want to leave with the anything you want to leave the audience with today on on anything that they can do and take action yeah one of the most important lessons my late mother left me was she didn’t realize it that we all have a story to tell that can give people hope and inspiration like everyone you and I are too close to our own experiences we
(57:37) don’t see the value because we went through it and we survived it so we’re thinking okay I did that there’s so much gold in our stories that we don’t realize and that’s why it’s important to get help from other people to find it and pull it out but share your experiences of hope that created all all that emotion and you will have a lasting impact on others that’s such a great message to to leave everybody with because I I wholeheartedly believe that too and and thank you for pulling that
(58:08) out of people and teaching people how to deliver that message in a compelling way thank you for being here Michael I’m grateful for it and and uh to everyone out there thank you for joining us today we’ll see you next time hey everyone Thanks for tuning in to the flow over fear podcast if you’d like to learn more about getting into flow and learn the foundations of flow I have a free video series on my website at www.am Clifford hill.
(58:35) com called the foundations of flow feel free to go there and download it and start your journey to Rising above fear and achieving greater flow in your life if you like this episode and I’m guessing you did if you stuck around for this long then please do me a favor and hit the Subscribe button and you will receive notifications when I have new interviews new Recaps and new trainings that pop up on YouTube thanks again for joining us