Live Your Future Identity With Alice Penn, MD

[adam_hill]: hello everyone and welcome to flow over
fear i am glad you joined us today

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[adam_hill]: because we have an amazing guest a
very accomplished guest her name is alice pen

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[adam_hill]: she joins us from south africa and
she has a background of being a medical

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[adam_hill]: doctor a physician for high level sea
level executive sea sweet executives and successful grew

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: that practice so that she could combine
her passion with compassionate bedside manner with her

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[adam_hill]: laser like problem solving abilities from that
she volved and she took a pivot into

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[adam_hill]: corporate finance at one time and she
started working for the big four law firm

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[adam_hill]: so that’s a big pivot from one
area of being a high level medical doctor

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[adam_hill]: to to working in corporate finance for
a big four firm and now she is

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[adam_hill]: an international coach a consultant and a
speaker and she found the founder of alice

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[adam_hill]: pen m d h and she is
a master in the art and science of

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[adam_hill]: change and knows what it takes to
level up both personally and professionally through her

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[adam_hill]: success are ex coaching program she helps
professionals find the path that allows them to

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[adam_hill]: use their unique skills and gifts find
more purpose and meaning in their work and

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[adam_hill]: truly in their chosen field this is
going to be a great conversation thank you

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[adam_hill]: so much for joining us lis

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[alice_penn_]: hi adam thanks so much for having
me i’m really excited to be here

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[adam_hill]: this is you’ve you’ve accomplished

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[alice_penn_]: ah

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[adam_hill]: so much we were just talking off
line and i was saying i mean first

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[adam_hill]: of all i don’t know how i
could

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[alice_penn_]: m

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[adam_hill]: never compete with medical students when i
was in college but

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: achieve a medical degree become a physician
and

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[alice_penn_]: ah

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[adam_hill]: to people who are hiperformanced dividuals and
then make that pivot into finance it’s an

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[adam_hill]: incredible an incredible journey but i want
to take a step back to start and

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[adam_hill]: just kind of get a sense of
your background where you come from how you

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[adam_hill]: grew up and and how you got
to where you’re at

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[alice_penn_]: yeah great so as you mentioned the
start i’m dialing in today from cape town

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[alice_penn_]: south africa and this is actually where
i was born and i describe myself as

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[alice_penn_]: your typical eldest child so a bit
of a type a personality and i was

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[alice_penn_]: born to a medical doctor father and
a mother who’s a home maker but she’s

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[alice_penn_]: got three or four degrees highly highly
intelligent person so i grew up an environment

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[alice_penn_]: with fairly high expectations placed for me
i don’t want to put any pressure on

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[alice_penn_]: my parents but i was your sort
of typical type type a student i did

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[alice_penn_]: well at school i played the sports
played musical instruments was in all school players

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[alice_penn_]: and the choir and did all of
those sort of things and when i got

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[alice_penn_]: to about

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: the age of sixteen

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: here in south africa we start considering
what university will go to our new york

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[alice_penn_]: all at college and at the time
i just had no idea what i was

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[alice_penn_]: going to do so i looked

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: around me and at that stage the
kids who were doing well at school a

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[alice_penn_]: lot of them went to medical school
of course with father in medicine he was

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[alice_penn_]: a specialist and all of our friends
were

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: medical doctors i thought you know i
won’t be

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[adam_hill]: a

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[alice_penn_]: wrong to do medicine and i

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: think there was a bit of me
i was quite insecure quite an anxious child

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[alice_penn_]: and i thought perhaps in some way
it might sound a bit strange maybe i

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[alice_penn_]: make me almost a

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: good person i’ll be helping people were
using skills and expert so i applied to

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[alice_penn_]: medical school and then when i got
in i thought

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[adam_hill]: yah

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[alice_penn_]: well now i’d better go so i
was

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: actually pretty young when i started seventeen
so quite clue less naive

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: and quite quickly on i did think
i wonder what this whether this is the

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[alice_penn_]: right thing for me but

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: much as is the theme in many
parts of my life as you may later

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[alice_penn_]: on i thought no this is me
that’s wrong there’s something wrong with me because

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[alice_penn_]: most people would be delighted to be
here thrilled that they’ve got in i should

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[alice_penn_]: embrace the opportunity i should be more
great full so i did mention a few

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[alice_penn_]: times to my parents perhaps this isn’t
what i should be doing but i just

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[alice_penn_]: sold it on maybe next year we’ll
get better next year we’ll get better got

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[alice_penn_]: through medical

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[adam_hill]: h

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[alice_penn_]: school

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: and then i went in south africa
because of the fact that we do have

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[alice_penn_]: a lot of poverty here we as
soon as you finish medical school you do

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[alice_penn_]: your houseman and your um residency years
but then you also go and do some

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[alice_penn_]: time what we call community service in
more rural hospitals and for me i mean

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[alice_penn_]: everybody here goes through it i won’t
take away from other people’s experiences for me

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[alice_penn_]: it really impacted me badly i’m ffectionist
and recovery as i try to describe myself

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: and for me going and working there
and feeling that i wasn’t perhaps giving as

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[alice_penn_]: base as these people really needed but
there wasn’t anyone else there making mistakes struggling

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[alice_penn_]: with the whole concept you know lots
of things happened there i actually in retrospect

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[alice_penn_]: feel that did have some p t
s d because when that time was over

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[alice_penn_]: i went over to the u

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: k i went to london

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[adam_hill]: ah

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[alice_penn_]: like many south african do to go
and get a different type of experience

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[adam_hill]: ah

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[alice_penn_]: and

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[adam_hill]: i

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[alice_penn_]: for the

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: first year that i was there i
had

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: terrible flash backs nightmares

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: and i was really struggling

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: a lot so at that stage i

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[adam_hill]: my

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[alice_penn_]: sort of think now is the time
to think about doing something different i act

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[alice_penn_]: e was offered a job at one
of the investment banks to work on the

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[alice_penn_]: farmer and buy a teck desk and
i thought i’d just get out of medicine

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[alice_penn_]: now but at the same time i
got offered a job in a private prac

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[alice_penn_]: tis in the financial

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: district in the city in london and
the money was pretty good there and i

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[alice_penn_]: was tempted by that so i took
the medical job thinking i can grow this

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[alice_penn_]: practice and be involve in the business
side and

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[adam_hill]: i

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[alice_penn_]: i’m in the finance district and i’m
quite interested in finance and business so i

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[alice_penn_]: jumped into that role around that time
i met my now x husband but my

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[alice_penn_]: husband for eleven years and we were
getting engaged and getting married you can talk

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[alice_penn_]: about this perhaps a bit later but
i discovered earlier on the relationship that i

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[alice_penn_]: suspected he had an addiction probably um
and i think the combination of the struggle

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[alice_penn_]: dealing with that and the fact that
i knew that i wasn’t in the right

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[alice_penn_]: job for me so even though i
grew a successful practice i enjoyed my work

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[alice_penn_]: with my patients deep down i knew
i wasn’t in the right place for me

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[alice_penn_]: and this all of this my problems

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: in my personal life and being in
the wrong place in my professional life the

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[alice_penn_]: crack started to show

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: and i reached a point that i
was not in good shape for mental health

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[alice_penn_]: and impacted my physical health gain happy
to chat about it and i was forced

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[alice_penn_]: to take some time of work on
that and i decided now i need to

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[alice_penn_]: make change pain of staying stuck is
worse than the pain of changing now is

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[alice_penn_]: the time so i had a lot
of contact and network in the city and

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[alice_penn_]: in the fight in the world of
finance and i was offered an amazing job

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[alice_penn_]: at one of the big four firms
i was in their health care team in

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[alice_penn_]: corporate finance all of our clients were
big hospital groups health care related and i

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[alice_penn_]: really loved

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: love my time time there

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: unfortunately still had an address some of
the difficulties in my personal life after several

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[alice_penn_]: years my health took a knock on
my marriage develop pat and i literally got

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[alice_penn_]: in an aeroplane with two suit cases
and flew back to south africa and that’s

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[alice_penn_]: when the really hard work of figuring
out what i was going to do with

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[alice_penn_]: my life and how to pick myself
up this was probably the lowest point of

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[alice_penn_]: being in my life was very very
challenging difficult time to get through i felt

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[alice_penn_]: like a failure but

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: i knew that i had something left
in me i knew was still a reason

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[alice_penn_]: i was alive and i felt that
i needed to act on that that calling

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[alice_penn_]: in that feeling and

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: hearing a podcast and something that we
both know one of our men as rouryvaden

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[alice_penn_]: saying your best place to serve the
person you once were was a bit of

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[alice_penn_]: a light bad moment for me i
think i was running next to the c

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[alice_penn_]: or something like that and just thought
that’s it i need to stop hiding i

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[alice_penn_]: need to get out there and start
helping people and that took me to my

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[alice_penn_]: coaching practice on to where i am
today

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[adam_hill]: you

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[alice_penn_]: but

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[adam_hill]: got

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[alice_penn_]: of

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[adam_hill]: the

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[alice_penn_]: a long

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[adam_hill]: goosies

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[alice_penn_]: answer

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[adam_hill]: as roy as roy

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[alice_penn_]: exactly

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[adam_hill]: would say right

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[alice_penn_]: exactly it literally stopped me in my
tracks as like who is this i need

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[alice_penn_]: to find out more

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[adam_hill]: yeah well i appreciate that background because
there’s there’s a lot there i mean when

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[adam_hill]: we when we present ourselves or what
you know when you’re presenting yourself as someone

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[adam_hill]: that has such high achievements and has
achieved so much and done things i mean

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[adam_hill]: it’s easy to look from the outside
and and say oh well there’s someone that

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[adam_hill]: has their stuff together there’s someone that’s
you know always

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: you know that that that chip on
their shoulder that’s you know that spring in

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[adam_hill]: their step or you know they can
achieve it but i can’t and i know

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[adam_hill]: i know for a lot of people
in this audience they can certainly late to

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[adam_hill]: a lot of the challenges you had
i know that one of the first things

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[adam_hill]: that resonated with me is when you
talked about in college you know how you

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[adam_hill]: re our university

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: as as you would say there

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: there now there was this certain sense
of battling with the identity that you were

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[adam_hill]: working

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: with that there was an expectation

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: that you want to to achieve something
in the medical field or you you were

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[adam_hill]: feeling i guess drawn the medical field
but you didn’t you were uncertain you didn’t

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[adam_hill]: know where you were going did that
have an effect on you at that point

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[adam_hill]: as far as or how did that
manifest

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: as far as your fears and do
you have any regrets about the direction you

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[adam_hill]: took at that point

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[alice_penn_]: so actually in with my clients one
of the first things we talk about is

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[alice_penn_]: what i call solving for stuck and
one of the asses

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: of stuck is around this self identity
and me creating an identity as a medical

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[alice_penn_]: doctor at the age of sixteen and
holding on to that until nearly the age

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[alice_penn_]: of thirty yes so that was a
difficult one for me to challenge and to

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[alice_penn_]: now i i wasn’t completely wedded to
it but you do start to build up

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[alice_penn_]: an image of what your life perhaps
may be like

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: and

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: as i said at the start what
sort of a person it was going to

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[alice_penn_]: make me um

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: and and i think that that thinking
well if i don’t do it and who

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[alice_penn_]: will i be what will i be
also understanding that in my family certainly with

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[alice_penn_]: my dad as a medical doctor and
my mother also originally trained as a nurse

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[alice_penn_]: and a midwife there was some sort
of level of i don’t want to say

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[alice_penn_]: expectation but a good quality attached to
this sort of a role so

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: my parents would maybe

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[adam_hill]: oh

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[alice_penn_]: talk openly about oh if you’re in
finance just about money but what we

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: do is different so i think breaking
out of those expectations even if my parents

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[alice_penn_]: weren’t you know i would really hate
for them to think that they didn’t do

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[alice_penn_]: it intentionally but certainly that’s the way
that we that i grew up so it

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[alice_penn_]: took for me took me some time
just decide i can change my identity i

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[alice_penn_]: can actually let go of this and
find a way forwards even if i don’t

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[alice_penn_]: know what it’s going to be

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[adam_hill]: yeah i think that’s

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[alice_penn_]: regrets i definitely don’t regret it

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: i mean

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[adam_hill]: so you

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[alice_penn_]: if i went back again i probably
wouldn’t do mean however i’m always careful because

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[alice_penn_]: i am so grateful for the experience
that i did have and

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: you know you can’t take away who
you were and i’m extremely grateful for the

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[alice_penn_]: patients that allow you into their lives
so that’s a real privilege people

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: will talk to

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: you and tell you things that they
won’t tell many other people and so that’s

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[alice_penn_]: something that i’ll take to my grave
that sort of that that’s real gratitude that

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[alice_penn_]: i have for for people trusting you
with their stories and with their lives so

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[alice_penn_]: so that that but that i definitely
don’t regret and one of the other things

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[alice_penn_]: that i can so about training as
a doctor because a lot of people would

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[alice_penn_]: say well what was the relevance of
all your medical training in the rest of

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[alice_penn_]: your life is that at the end
of the day it is consulting it is

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: advisory you

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[adam_hill]: yeah

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[alice_penn_]: are talking to a person you’re trying
to understand their pain and their problem you’re

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[alice_penn_]: working with them to diagnose and investigate
and understand the root cause you’re coming up

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[alice_penn_]: with a plan of treatment and taking
him through it so even in my consulting

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[alice_penn_]: career commercial financial advisor career and even
what i do today it’s still the same

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[alice_penn_]: principle so

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: kind of care that’s through with me

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[adam_hill]: it almost sounds like that experience you
you’ve had with kind of the challenges you’ve

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[adam_hill]: faced maybe with the medical health with
which we can get into or the mental

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[adam_hill]: health that we can get into the

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: hat that is maybe your experience because

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: you mentioned that you have a strong
bedside

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: manner for for a doctor and i
know a lot of doctors that they almost

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[adam_hill]: you know that doesn’t exist they may
great doctors but they might not have the

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[adam_hill]: bedside manner but you

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: have that and that empathy it sounds
like that comes from your experience would that

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[adam_hill]: be fair to say

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[alice_penn_]: definitely and i think because i wasn’t
that passionate about the subject matter

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: i felt that i could throw myself
into the inter personal side of things

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: and for better or worse i’ve tamed
to be somebody who wants to try and

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[alice_penn_]: help others i think we can touch
it later but in my marriage it created

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[alice_penn_]: kind of a code of pendency where
i enjoying too much helping this person who

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[alice_penn_]: needed so much help

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[adam_hill]: h

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[alice_penn_]: but in

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: my medical career i definitely i mean
certainly when i was during all my training

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[alice_penn_]: in psychiatry i always found that extremely
interesting and i think as you say having

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[alice_penn_]: had so many of my own challenges
actually from schooldays onwards with my mental health

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[alice_penn_]: even though it wasn’t addressed or spoken
about then i really could as you say

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[alice_penn_]: identify with what patients were perhaps going
through or did my best to and that’s

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[alice_penn_]: the side of it that i really
enjoyed

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[adam_hill]: yeah and and that’s that’s something i’d
like to share about as well in my

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[adam_hill]: personal story becase i come from you
know anxiety background and

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: things like that and it used to
be so debilitating you know it’s such a

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[adam_hill]: debilitating thing to experience those issues but
when we can rise above them i realize

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[adam_hill]: that they turn into super powers that
you can actually make them super powers and

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00:14:52,279 –> 00:14:57,668
[adam_hill]: an sounds like an example of just
that you know these these things that you

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[adam_hill]: experience with you know this this identity
and

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[alice_penn_]: oh

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[adam_hill]: trying to trying to shape that turned
into almost this empathy you could have for

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[adam_hill]: your patients and and and the super
power that you now have that you’re sharing

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[adam_hill]: with the world so that’s powerful and
so with regard to some of that mental

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[adam_hill]: health you evolved throughout your life and
you experience some of this some of this

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[adam_hill]: trauma through having to work in in
some of the poverty stricken zones in south

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[adam_hill]: africa what how did that develop into
the mental health issues what what were you

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00:15:32,612 –> 00:15:34,518
[adam_hill]: experiencing at that at that time

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[alice_penn_]: so i think if i reflect back
and i’ve been through a lot of therapy

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[alice_penn_]: and i’m happy and open to a
talk about that because i think it’s important

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[alice_penn_]: to mention it because as you said
at the start quite

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[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: often people don’t realize if you are
on paper a high achiever how you might

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00:15:51,569 –> 00:15:55,456
[alice_penn_]: still have these struggles and issues going
on and certainly for me that was actually

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00:15:55,656 –> 00:15:59,022
[alice_penn_]: a challenge because people didn’t want to
ask me if i was okay because they

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00:15:59,603 –> 00:16:03,870
[alice_penn_]: sort of thought maybe i’d be offended
or i seemed to be doing well i

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[alice_penn_]: was quite high functioning so they didn’t
want to offend me or step on my

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[alice_penn_]: toes so what

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00:16:08,723 –> 00:16:09,390
[adam_hill]: hm

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[alice_penn_]: i can say is that even as
a child i was very anxious i used

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[alice_penn_]: to worry

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[adam_hill]: h m

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00:16:16,101 –> 00:16:21,430
[alice_penn_]: when i went to play school nursery
school but what would the other children be

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[alice_penn_]: like and what would they think of
me and i think early on i developed

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[alice_penn_]: this fear of failure fear of

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[adam_hill]: m

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00:16:29,042 –> 00:16:31,747
[alice_penn_]: making a mistake fear of being told
i’ve got something wrong

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[adam_hill]: m

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[alice_penn_]: and this created this perfect tionism which
is really ham strung me a lot in

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00:16:38,779 –> 00:16:44,047
[alice_penn_]: my life and held me back because
you’re trying so hard to give people what

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00:16:44,088 –> 00:16:49,095
[alice_penn_]: they want and be as good as
you can to avoid the pain of being

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00:16:49,175 –> 00:16:51,418
[alice_penn_]: told this is not good enough so

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[adam_hill]: m

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00:16:51,518 –> 00:16:52,679
[alice_penn_]: when i did music performance

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00:16:52,583 –> 00:16:52,684
[adam_hill]: ah

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00:16:52,739 –> 00:16:57,566
[alice_penn_]: or sport if i got off the
stage or whatever i had any criticism i

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00:16:57,646 –> 00:17:04,156
[alice_penn_]: couldn’t deal with it so i think
that i developed these unrelenting standards for myself

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00:17:04,170 –> 00:17:04,190
[adam_hill]: m

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00:17:05,318 –> 00:17:05,839
[alice_penn_]: and it was

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00:17:05,799 –> 00:17:05,820
[adam_hill]: m

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00:17:05,919 –> 00:17:11,168
[alice_penn_]: great in some ways because having unrelenting
stand unrelenting standards can get you so far

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00:17:11,228 –> 00:17:15,536
[alice_penn_]: in your academics and in life in
general and what have developed through my mental

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00:17:15,556 –> 00:17:17,401
[alice_penn_]: health challenges is grit

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00:17:18,993 –> 00:17:19,013
[adam_hill]: h

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00:17:19,175 –> 00:17:19,840
[alice_penn_]: but it can also

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00:17:19,959 –> 00:17:19,980
[adam_hill]: m

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00:17:19,981 –> 00:17:26,070
[alice_penn_]: go to the extreme so i have
historically pushed myself too far so when i

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00:17:26,130 –> 00:17:26,230
[alice_penn_]: was

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00:17:26,313 –> 00:17:26,353
[adam_hill]: he

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00:17:26,330 –> 00:17:31,439
[alice_penn_]: working as a doctor by the time
i got to london and my personal challenges

352
00:17:31,739 –> 00:17:37,390
[alice_penn_]: in my marriage were building up this
is when i started taking things even more

353
00:17:37,570 –> 00:17:42,780
[alice_penn_]: even to further extremes i had my
ups and downs through school and university through

354
00:17:42,841 –> 00:17:48,861
[alice_penn_]: college this is when i worked harder
and harder and harder so i got to

355
00:17:48,901 –> 00:17:53,809
[alice_penn_]: work earlier i stayed later i tried
to be perfect for all my patients and

356
00:17:53,869 –> 00:17:56,473
[alice_penn_]: if i made a mistake i could
not relax and let go

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00:17:56,970 –> 00:17:57,311
[adam_hill]: oh

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00:17:57,455 –> 00:18:02,083
[alice_penn_]: coupled with that i’ve always been quite
sporty and done a lot of exercise and

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00:18:02,143 –> 00:18:05,068
[alice_penn_]: running my exercise just got longer and

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00:18:05,002 –> 00:18:05,083
[adam_hill]: oh

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00:18:05,088 –> 00:18:08,855
[alice_penn_]: longer in the gym i go try
get up extra early get a longer running

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00:18:09,256 –> 00:18:12,704
[alice_penn_]: get to the gym really early after
work back in the gym

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00:18:12,660 –> 00:18:12,882
[adam_hill]: yeah

364
00:18:12,784 –> 00:18:15,070
[alice_penn_]: running a kind of punitive nature

365
00:18:16,046 –> 00:18:16,620
[adam_hill]: hm

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00:18:16,323 –> 00:18:21,252
[alice_penn_]: i wasn’t matching it with the fuel
requirements so it became very strict about what

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00:18:21,292 –> 00:18:26,221
[alice_penn_]: i was eating and all of this
just affected my sleep my my well being

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00:18:26,301 –> 00:18:33,345
[alice_penn_]: over all um and yeah just led
to my mental health and my physical health

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00:18:33,385 –> 00:18:35,111
[alice_penn_]: really deteriorating around that time

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[adam_hill]: so wow that i appreciate you sharing
that as well because you know there’s there’s

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00:18:41,409 –> 00:18:46,237
[adam_hill]: a lot of folks that do try
and balance that you know mental health aspect

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[adam_hill]: with things like

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[alice_penn_]: yeah

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[adam_hill]: exercise so

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00:18:48,095 –> 00:18:48,256
[alice_penn_]: yeah

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00:18:48,320 –> 00:18:53,008
[adam_hill]: guilty right i’m guilty of that as
well and almost to the extreme to the

377
00:18:53,048 –> 00:18:54,671
[adam_hill]: extent that maybe they are restricting

378
00:18:55,363 –> 00:18:55,505
[alice_penn_]: yeah

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00:18:55,432 –> 00:19:00,861
[adam_hill]: um their diet and that of course
i mean we hear a lot about the

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00:19:01,222 –> 00:19:07,011
[adam_hill]: idea of obesity being an epidemic and
certainly it is but there’s a silent epidemic

381
00:19:07,092 –> 00:19:10,798
[adam_hill]: too of people that aren’t you know
that that are restricting to this diet

382
00:19:10,754 –> 00:19:10,878
[alice_penn_]: yeah

383
00:19:10,858 –> 00:19:14,304
[adam_hill]: culture that causing major problems on our
our

384
00:19:14,273 –> 00:19:14,414
[alice_penn_]: yeah

385
00:19:14,364 –> 00:19:20,855
[adam_hill]: mental health but i love love love
the way that you put this this idea

386
00:19:20,915 –> 00:19:24,501
[adam_hill]: because it is it seems like it’s
another aspect of a super power that comes

387
00:19:24,581 –> 00:19:30,070
[adam_hill]: from this mental health issue you talk
about the unrelenting standards i love that language

388
00:19:30,130 –> 00:19:34,037
[adam_hill]: that you use there the unrelenting standards
that you put on yourself that lead to

389
00:19:34,077 –> 00:19:39,848
[adam_hill]: this perfectionism and o that maybe come
from it or maybe it’s a cycle

390
00:19:39,713 –> 00:19:40,623
[alice_penn_]: yeah

391
00:19:40,910 –> 00:19:46,102
[adam_hill]: they lead to this grit that you
have yes it’s it may cause the challenges

392
00:19:46,142 –> 00:19:52,953
[adam_hill]: that this perfectionism may be a toxic
trade but that ultimately you got from it

393
00:19:53,094 –> 00:19:58,684
[adam_hill]: grit which is an empowering trade um
that’s something you share with your clients now

394
00:19:59,345 –> 00:20:02,289
[adam_hill]: how do you how do you kind
of pass the grit rate on

395
00:20:03,494 –> 00:20:09,610
[alice_penn_]: look i is it is a double
edged sword because if you have so much

396
00:20:09,710 –> 00:20:13,697
[alice_penn_]: grit that you can’t stop and reconsider
that you’ve made a mistake and one of

397
00:20:13,737 –> 00:20:13,837
[alice_penn_]: the

398
00:20:13,805 –> 00:20:14,400
[adam_hill]: hm

399
00:20:13,877 –> 00:20:18,209
[alice_penn_]: things that really helped me was actually
thinking i’m a low to change my mind

400
00:20:18,963 –> 00:20:19,363
[alice_penn_]: i’m allowed

401
00:20:19,286 –> 00:20:19,326
[adam_hill]: m

402
00:20:19,423 –> 00:20:20,145
[alice_penn_]: to reconsider

403
00:20:20,019 –> 00:20:20,040
[adam_hill]: m

404
00:20:20,766 –> 00:20:25,133
[alice_penn_]: what i thought was good for me
ten or fifteen years ago and those thoughts

405
00:20:25,213 –> 00:20:29,500
[alice_penn_]: become so intrenched that you actually have
to stop and a lot of the work

406
00:20:29,560 –> 00:20:33,507
[alice_penn_]: i do with my clients as round
sort of requiring idea neuroplasticity

407
00:20:34,443 –> 00:20:35,070
[adam_hill]: hm

408
00:20:34,889 –> 00:20:37,634
[alice_penn_]: but yes i think what i try
and do with my clients is give them

409
00:20:37,674 –> 00:20:44,385
[alice_penn_]: the confidence that making changes hard it’s
going to hard it’s going to fill you

410
00:20:44,405 –> 00:20:49,093
[alice_penn_]: with fear and anxiety there’s two ways
it can go and you’ve got to face

411
00:20:49,133 –> 00:20:53,640
[alice_penn_]: some sort of challenge either you be
like me fear and anxiety comes up can’t

412
00:20:53,741 –> 00:20:56,746
[alice_penn_]: sleep can’t stop thinking but what lies
ahead or you can

413
00:20:56,730 –> 00:20:56,973
[adam_hill]: yeah

414
00:20:56,866 –> 00:20:57,928
[alice_penn_]: feel perhaps

415
00:20:57,948 –> 00:20:58,050
[adam_hill]: yeah

416
00:20:58,028 –> 00:20:58,709
[alice_penn_]: little bit lower

417
00:20:58,530 –> 00:20:58,691
[adam_hill]: ye

418
00:20:58,769 –> 00:21:03,056
[alice_penn_]: in mood sluggish you don’t have the
motivation you can’t get your head around around

419
00:21:03,337 –> 00:21:07,163
[alice_penn_]: taking the next step so i try
and use a nero science type roach and

420
00:21:07,223 –> 00:21:07,584
[alice_penn_]: help people

421
00:21:07,539 –> 00:21:07,560
[adam_hill]: m

422
00:21:07,644 –> 00:21:07,984
[alice_penn_]: understand

423
00:21:07,740 –> 00:21:08,001
[adam_hill]: yeah

424
00:21:08,004 –> 00:21:11,450
[alice_penn_]: that this is your brain your brain
wants you to be stuck you aren’t lazy

425
00:21:11,229 –> 00:21:11,250
[adam_hill]: m

426
00:21:11,570 –> 00:21:12,672
[alice_penn_]: or you aren’t just

427
00:21:12,687 –> 00:21:12,848
[adam_hill]: right

428
00:21:12,772 –> 00:21:16,679
[alice_penn_]: too anxious your anxiety isn’t isn’t the
problem the problem is that your brain wants

429
00:21:16,739 –> 00:21:17,320
[alice_penn_]: to keep you stuck

430
00:21:17,379 –> 00:21:17,400
[adam_hill]: m

431
00:21:17,420 –> 00:21:18,382
[alice_penn_]: so i try

432
00:21:18,316 –> 00:21:18,930
[adam_hill]: hm

433
00:21:18,462 –> 00:21:22,669
[alice_penn_]: and take science approached to it because
that’s what helped me right if i had

434
00:21:22,769 –> 00:21:27,878
[alice_penn_]: believed and acted on everything i felt
i wouldn’t have been able to take action

435
00:21:27,938 –> 00:21:29,380
[alice_penn_]: and move forwards so

436
00:21:29,536 –> 00:21:29,556
[adam_hill]: h

437
00:21:30,061 –> 00:21:30,362
[alice_penn_]: i try

438
00:21:30,249 –> 00:21:30,270
[adam_hill]: m

439
00:21:30,402 –> 00:21:34,649
[alice_penn_]: and help through that and i think
having been through it myself and to give

440
00:21:34,689 –> 00:21:38,315
[alice_penn_]: them examples of having done it i
think can help give them the confidence perhaps

441
00:21:38,395 –> 00:21:42,201
[alice_penn_]: i need to take a step and
try and push through that anxiety and push

442
00:21:42,402 –> 00:21:44,298
[alice_penn_]: that fear actually see what’s on the
other side

443
00:21:45,330 –> 00:21:48,936
[adam_hill]: so our so our experiences can shape
how we can help other people

444
00:21:49,194 –> 00:21:49,599
[alice_penn_]: exactly

445
00:21:49,216 –> 00:21:50,018
[adam_hill]: in that in that sense

446
00:21:49,942 –> 00:21:50,347
[alice_penn_]: exactly

447
00:21:50,639 –> 00:21:54,706
[adam_hill]: and i love i would love to
dig into that that science of change part

448
00:21:54,806 –> 00:21:55,627
[adam_hill]: because there’s so much

449
00:21:55,825 –> 00:21:56,313
[alice_penn_]: hm

450
00:21:56,769 –> 00:22:01,417
[adam_hill]: in this industry of helping people that
that is more pseudo science but i love

451
00:22:01,457 –> 00:22:06,926
[adam_hill]: the actual science science aspect of it
because it’s important to discuss that and you

452
00:22:06,946 –> 00:22:10,252
[adam_hill]: know before we do because i think
a lot of people might resonate with this

453
00:22:10,352 –> 00:22:10,572
[adam_hill]: part

454
00:22:10,593 –> 00:22:10,613
[alice_penn_]: m

455
00:22:11,934 –> 00:22:13,377
[adam_hill]: in your story you talk a little
bit

456
00:22:13,323 –> 00:22:13,343
[alice_penn_]: m

457
00:22:13,417 –> 00:22:18,445
[adam_hill]: about about the you know the fact
that when you got married i think that

458
00:22:18,846 –> 00:22:25,337
[adam_hill]: might have contributed to some of the
mental physic health issues um how but but

459
00:22:25,397 –> 00:22:25,537
[adam_hill]: that

460
00:22:25,503 –> 00:22:26,493
[alice_penn_]: yeah

461
00:22:25,577 –> 00:22:29,403
[adam_hill]: eventually you you know you made that
empowering decision to leave to get on the

462
00:22:29,423 –> 00:22:34,472
[adam_hill]: plane how did that manifest itself because
that that’s a big switch i know that

463
00:22:34,492 –> 00:22:38,358
[adam_hill]: there’s a lot of people and you
know i being an addict myself and my

464
00:22:38,418 –> 00:22:45,030
[adam_hill]: wife kind of being subject to that
uh you know how how did you break

465
00:22:45,150 –> 00:22:48,727
[adam_hill]: that chain if you don’t mind me
asking and kind of digging into that

466
00:22:49,535 –> 00:22:55,423
[alice_penn_]: look at that took a really long
time and i made some huge mistakes with

467
00:22:55,503 –> 00:22:59,049
[alice_penn_]: trying to force my husband to stop
drinking which he did do but he didn’t

468
00:22:59,129 –> 00:22:59,550
[alice_penn_]: embrace

469
00:22:59,263 –> 00:22:59,790
[adam_hill]: hm

470
00:22:59,790 –> 00:23:04,919
[alice_penn_]: perhaps the rest of recovery as well
as you could have and i’ve since discovered

471
00:23:04,959 –> 00:23:08,845
[alice_penn_]: places like allen really helped me understan
that it’s not for me to try and

472
00:23:08,885 –> 00:23:13,273
[alice_penn_]: control the other person so i think
me trying to control the situation you’ve already

473
00:23:13,313 –> 00:23:17,820
[alice_penn_]: picked up that i have these unrelenting
standards for myself the not so nice side

474
00:23:17,860 –> 00:23:21,126
[alice_penn_]: of it is you can put that
on to another person so

475
00:23:21,191 –> 00:23:21,252
[adam_hill]: hm

476
00:23:21,827 –> 00:23:22,388
[alice_penn_]: i know that

477
00:23:22,539 –> 00:23:22,560
[adam_hill]: m

478
00:23:23,149 –> 00:23:25,834
[alice_penn_]: i didn’t know what i was doing
i thought that i did i thought i’m

479
00:23:25,894 –> 00:23:29,279
[alice_penn_]: a doctor i’m goin fix this thing
i’m going to make sure everything is all

480
00:23:29,339 –> 00:23:32,487
[alice_penn_]: right and that life is going to
be okay and that was a big mistake

481
00:23:32,648 –> 00:23:38,560
[alice_penn_]: so by the time the marriage did
end again i’d got to really bad point

482
00:23:38,620 –> 00:23:41,786
[alice_penn_]: in my mental health and i was
lucky enough to be getting really support from

483
00:23:41,846 –> 00:23:42,868
[alice_penn_]: professionals at the time

484
00:23:43,583 –> 00:23:44,190
[adam_hill]: hm

485
00:23:43,809 –> 00:23:44,751
[alice_penn_]: but they did challenge

486
00:23:44,520 –> 00:23:45,630
[adam_hill]: oh

487
00:23:44,871 –> 00:23:52,867
[alice_penn_]: me start to learn to share what
i was really thinking and experiencing and feeling

488
00:23:53,589 –> 00:24:02,135
[alice_penn_]: and i started to do that in
my relationship and then realized that i wasn’t

489
00:24:02,356 –> 00:24:07,104
[alice_penn_]: going to be able to be myself
in the fullest version of who i was

490
00:24:08,125 –> 00:24:11,731
[alice_penn_]: i wasn’t going to have a sort
of relationship

491
00:24:11,400 –> 00:24:12,120
[adam_hill]: yeah

492
00:24:11,771 –> 00:24:14,357
[alice_penn_]: where we could meet each other’s needs
and

493
00:24:14,412 –> 00:24:14,452
[adam_hill]: hm

494
00:24:14,437 –> 00:24:15,620
[alice_penn_]: it wasn’t for lack of trying

495
00:24:15,399 –> 00:24:15,420
[adam_hill]: m

496
00:24:15,660 –> 00:24:18,567
[alice_penn_]: because you do feel like a failure
when the these things don’t work out

497
00:24:18,822 –> 00:24:18,985
[adam_hill]: sure

498
00:24:19,288 –> 00:24:23,619
[alice_penn_]: but i felt that it was best
trance for me and for him to be

499
00:24:23,759 –> 00:24:30,190
[alice_penn_]: able to find some healing and find
some recovery and hopefully have a better both

500
00:24:30,270 –> 00:24:30,932
[alice_penn_]: of better lives

501
00:24:31,620 –> 00:24:31,963
[adam_hill]: mhm

502
00:24:31,635 –> 00:24:36,074
[alice_penn_]: so i think i just reached the
point where i thought i have exhausted as

503
00:24:36,134 –> 00:24:40,560
[alice_penn_]: many avenues as i can and i
don’t think i’m going to make it if

504
00:24:40,700 –> 00:24:45,479
[alice_penn_]: i don’t do something different i’m so
messed with this other person that i think

505
00:24:45,539 –> 00:24:48,224
[alice_penn_]: i need to hair back die

506
00:24:48,051 –> 00:24:48,131
[adam_hill]: ah

507
00:24:48,264 –> 00:24:52,471
[alice_penn_]: back ground myself and actually find a
way forwards so

508
00:24:52,943 –> 00:24:53,550
[adam_hill]: hm

509
00:24:53,193 –> 00:24:58,381
[alice_penn_]: it came out of desperation but and
though i still to this day think you

510
00:24:58,421 –> 00:25:03,350
[alice_penn_]: know i hope i made the right
decision it certainly allowed me to face myself

511
00:25:03,530 –> 00:25:08,498
[alice_penn_]: and also not think that and blame
someone else for my problems and actually make

512
00:25:08,618 –> 00:25:12,004
[alice_penn_]: the change that i needed to make
and i only can hope and pray that

513
00:25:12,345 –> 00:25:15,129
[alice_penn_]: you know the other person has been
able to do the same so it came

514
00:25:15,189 –> 00:25:15,390
[alice_penn_]: from a

515
00:25:15,385 –> 00:25:15,406
[adam_hill]: h

516
00:25:15,450 –> 00:25:15,930
[alice_penn_]: decision of

517
00:25:15,999 –> 00:25:16,020
[adam_hill]: m

518
00:25:16,672 –> 00:25:20,035
[alice_penn_]: if i’m going to survive i think
that this is this is what i’m going

519
00:25:20,095 –> 00:25:21,857
[alice_penn_]: to need to do as hard as
it is

520
00:25:22,570 –> 00:25:22,711
[adam_hill]: yeah

521
00:25:22,858 –> 00:25:26,802
[alice_penn_]: it felt like the hard harder decision
at the time but the right decision so

522
00:25:27,212 –> 00:25:31,045
[adam_hill]: it’s hard to acknowledge especially you know
when we when we’re in a relationship when

523
00:25:31,085 –> 00:25:35,274
[adam_hill]: we love someone we don’t you know
that we can’t control that person even

524
00:25:35,305 –> 00:25:35,428
[alice_penn_]: yeah

525
00:25:35,354 –> 00:25:38,700
[adam_hill]: there their choices that’s that’s hard and

526
00:25:38,744 –> 00:25:38,868
[alice_penn_]: yeah

527
00:25:38,760 –> 00:25:45,391
[adam_hill]: i know that that’s a challenge to
overcome but but it is hugely just to

528
00:25:45,972 –> 00:25:50,860
[adam_hill]: take that step that that you did
and just to acknowledge you for that and

529
00:25:51,060 –> 00:25:56,389
[adam_hill]: you know the feeling of failure i
think a lot of people can resonate with

530
00:25:56,449 –> 00:25:59,557
[adam_hill]: it myself included when when things don’t
work out the way we

531
00:25:59,703 –> 00:26:00,328
[alice_penn_]: ye

532
00:25:59,838 –> 00:26:00,439
[adam_hill]: want them to

533
00:26:02,133 –> 00:26:02,356
[alice_penn_]: oh

534
00:26:02,264 –> 00:26:07,354
[adam_hill]: but with that said you know you
wrote you rise from the ashes on things

535
00:26:07,414 –> 00:26:12,462
[adam_hill]: like that and maybe even things aren’t
as bad as as they they as you

536
00:26:12,562 –> 00:26:18,818
[adam_hill]: think they are what would you what
would you say to someone that is feeling

537
00:26:18,858 –> 00:26:25,419
[adam_hill]: that sense of hopelessness or failure um
or sense of failure now from the perspective

538
00:26:25,460 –> 00:26:28,808
[adam_hill]: of somebody who’s who came back from
that and achieved so much more

539
00:26:30,754 –> 00:26:35,161
[alice_penn_]: look i actually walked across a bridge
one night in london shortly before i returned

540
00:26:35,221 –> 00:26:39,388
[alice_penn_]: to africa and i saw a sign
this a true story and it said and

541
00:26:39,428 –> 00:26:42,874
[alice_penn_]: it was dark and it was winter
and i was walking through one of the

542
00:26:42,894 –> 00:26:46,939
[alice_penn_]: row parks across some water and there’s
this bridge in the sun little board on

543
00:26:47,040 –> 00:26:52,565
[alice_penn_]: it said m don’t quit now it
could be a second too soon and

544
00:26:52,595 –> 00:26:52,636
[adam_hill]: m

545
00:26:52,605 –> 00:26:53,428
[alice_penn_]: i’ll never forget that

546
00:26:53,430 –> 00:26:53,633
[adam_hill]: ye

547
00:26:53,508 –> 00:27:00,173
[alice_penn_]: because i try to take that principle
now even into my into my business you

548
00:27:00,253 –> 00:27:05,522
[alice_penn_]: are often just one phone call away
one conversation way one step away one moment

549
00:27:05,602 –> 00:27:08,306
[alice_penn_]: away from something happening that is the
thing that you need to happen

550
00:27:08,970 –> 00:27:09,960
[adam_hill]: mhm

551
00:27:09,228 –> 00:27:16,744
[alice_penn_]: so that is what i try and
say to people in terms of not giving

552
00:27:16,804 –> 00:27:23,128
[alice_penn_]: up giving up hope and now there’s
nothing that you can really say to somebody

553
00:27:23,220 –> 00:27:23,561
[adam_hill]: oh

554
00:27:23,228 –> 00:27:26,093
[alice_penn_]: to take them out of despair

555
00:27:25,920 –> 00:27:25,940
[adam_hill]: m

556
00:27:26,134 –> 00:27:26,714
[alice_penn_]: that they may be

557
00:27:26,880 –> 00:27:27,182
[adam_hill]: oh

558
00:27:26,915 –> 00:27:29,279
[alice_penn_]: in but sometimes just share my story

559
00:27:28,919 –> 00:27:28,980
[adam_hill]: ah

560
00:27:29,760 –> 00:27:32,945
[alice_penn_]: i mean after my divorce and i
came back to africa i think i turned

561
00:27:33,426 –> 00:27:35,970
[alice_penn_]: forty sleeping in my parents sleeping in

562
00:27:35,940 –> 00:27:36,182
[adam_hill]: yah

563
00:27:36,010 –> 00:27:37,653
[alice_penn_]: my childhood bedroom so that was a
a

564
00:27:37,679 –> 00:27:37,740
[adam_hill]: ah

565
00:27:37,813 –> 00:27:37,973
[alice_penn_]: high

566
00:27:38,031 –> 00:27:38,195
[adam_hill]: yeah

567
00:27:38,033 –> 00:27:39,916
[alice_penn_]: light for me i thought

568
00:27:40,050 –> 00:27:40,271
[adam_hill]: yeah

569
00:27:40,457 –> 00:27:45,666
[alice_penn_]: goodness me i’m just you know pupil
who’s done so well at school and all

570
00:27:45,706 –> 00:27:48,050
[alice_penn_]: of these things and here i am
sleeping sleeping

571
00:27:47,760 –> 00:27:47,982
[adam_hill]: oh

572
00:27:48,110 –> 00:27:49,412
[alice_penn_]: literally in my childhood bedroom

573
00:27:50,100 –> 00:27:50,486
[adam_hill]: mhm

574
00:27:50,214 –> 00:27:55,463
[alice_penn_]: um so to try and give people
hope that you are you just actually just

575
00:27:55,523 –> 00:27:59,990
[alice_penn_]: have to keep going one step at
a time because it’s like a raging river

576
00:28:00,131 –> 00:28:00,311
[alice_penn_]: there

577
00:28:00,174 –> 00:28:00,195
[adam_hill]: a

578
00:28:00,411 –> 00:28:03,818
[alice_penn_]: is you can get across this river
to the bank on the other side it’s

579
00:28:03,858 –> 00:28:06,583
[alice_penn_]: a little bit about a leap of
faith i think

580
00:28:07,517 –> 00:28:08,430
[adam_hill]: h m

581
00:28:08,648 –> 00:28:10,451
[alice_penn_]: which try and try and help people
with

582
00:28:11,580 –> 00:28:17,169
[adam_hill]: yeah well that it’s funny you mentioned
the sleeping in your parents house

583
00:28:16,983 –> 00:28:20,163
[alice_penn_]: yeah

584
00:28:17,369 –> 00:28:22,257
[adam_hill]: at that point in time it was
this it was a very similar experience to

585
00:28:22,317 –> 00:28:28,373
[adam_hill]: what i had come out of my
hopeless point my bottom where i was you

586
00:28:28,413 –> 00:28:31,759
[adam_hill]: know my mind was much different because
i was on the side of the addiction

587
00:28:31,899 –> 00:28:32,420
[adam_hill]: side where i

588
00:28:32,423 –> 00:28:32,567
[alice_penn_]: yeah

589
00:28:32,821 –> 00:28:37,709
[adam_hill]: came out and i was coming home
from jail i went directly to my my

590
00:28:37,809 –> 00:28:40,281
[adam_hill]: parents hous because my wife wouldn’t have
me home obviously

591
00:28:40,426 –> 00:28:40,446
[alice_penn_]: a

592
00:28:41,005 –> 00:28:45,986
[adam_hill]: so that was where i had my
sense of hopelessness to was sitting laying in

593
00:28:46,026 –> 00:28:47,770
[adam_hill]: my pen in my childhood

594
00:28:47,553 –> 00:28:47,915
[alice_penn_]: oh

595
00:28:47,810 –> 00:28:49,312
[adam_hill]: home in my childhood bedroom

596
00:28:50,133 –> 00:28:50,413
[alice_penn_]: oh

597
00:28:50,214 –> 00:28:52,257
[adam_hill]: um and yeah so that’s

598
00:28:52,396 –> 00:28:53,457
[alice_penn_]: it’s a humbling feeling

599
00:28:53,850 –> 00:28:59,700
[adam_hill]: it is very humbling but but to
to everybody listening that you can bounce back

600
00:29:00,140 –> 00:29:00,240
[adam_hill]: and

601
00:29:00,403 –> 00:29:00,525
[alice_penn_]: yeah

602
00:29:00,561 –> 00:29:04,568
[adam_hill]: and i mean in your case it
wasn’t it wasn’t self imposed that was an

603
00:29:04,628 –> 00:29:09,135
[adam_hill]: empowering decision make that move which is
which is a key different you know it’s

604
00:29:09,175 –> 00:29:11,279
[adam_hill]: an empowering move to make that to
take

605
00:29:11,223 –> 00:29:11,363
[alice_penn_]: yeah

606
00:29:11,319 –> 00:29:16,307
[adam_hill]: that step and you took a powerful
step there and i think that that’s that’s

607
00:29:16,367 –> 00:29:18,154
[adam_hill]: important and

608
00:29:18,023 –> 00:29:22,415
[alice_penn_]: except to be to be fair you
have to i allowed myself to go through

609
00:29:22,476 –> 00:29:23,820
[alice_penn_]: that marriage for that

610
00:29:23,892 –> 00:29:24,600
[adam_hill]: hm

611
00:29:23,940 –> 00:29:29,039
[alice_penn_]: long and i allowed the financial position
were in for me to sort of let

612
00:29:29,119 –> 00:29:34,528
[alice_penn_]: it be remain unchecked i didn’t i
stopped having control over my own finances and

613
00:29:34,588 –> 00:29:39,495
[alice_penn_]: yes other people could look inwardly and
say look from the outward in and say

614
00:29:40,395 –> 00:29:43,378
[alice_penn_]: well why did you do that you’re
an educated person you should have known what

615
00:29:43,418 –> 00:29:45,059
[alice_penn_]: was going on but i didn’t

616
00:29:45,682 –> 00:29:45,887
[adam_hill]: right

617
00:29:45,820 –> 00:29:52,759
[alice_penn_]: and so as much as i yes
it wasn’t someone else’s addiction isn’t my isn’t

618
00:29:52,839 –> 00:29:57,166
[alice_penn_]: self imposed i still probably enabled a
lot of things that went on and i

619
00:29:57,287 –> 00:29:57,587
[alice_penn_]: made the

620
00:29:57,512 –> 00:29:57,532
[adam_hill]: h

621
00:29:57,627 –> 00:29:58,108
[alice_penn_]: choices

622
00:29:58,239 –> 00:29:58,260
[adam_hill]: m

623
00:29:58,529 –> 00:30:02,395
[alice_penn_]: and i’m always very clear that it
was important to take accountability for that that

624
00:30:02,455 –> 00:30:05,661
[alice_penn_]: i was parted to what went on
i was party to the fact that i

625
00:30:05,741 –> 00:30:08,525
[alice_penn_]: came back with two suit cases and
not much else to my name and had

626
00:30:08,565 –> 00:30:14,115
[alice_penn_]: to start again so i think that
you can feel like failure because your judgment

627
00:30:14,275 –> 00:30:14,776
[alice_penn_]: perhaps has

628
00:30:14,700 –> 00:30:14,720
[adam_hill]: m

629
00:30:14,816 –> 00:30:18,702
[alice_penn_]: been so bad and you’ve allowed yourself
to reach a point where ve had to

630
00:30:18,823 –> 00:30:21,146
[alice_penn_]: turn to your parents and say help

631
00:30:22,144 –> 00:30:22,345
[adam_hill]: right

632
00:30:22,208 –> 00:30:25,781
[alice_penn_]: i need a little bit of help
so i think you know it does have

633
00:30:25,821 –> 00:30:26,567
[alice_penn_]: both sides to it

634
00:30:27,720 –> 00:30:32,308
[adam_hill]: yeah that’s a that’s a great point
and and a lot of times definitely overlooked

635
00:30:32,789 –> 00:30:36,595
[adam_hill]: as far as how we you know
how we look inwardly at ourselves on that

636
00:30:36,655 –> 00:30:36,916
[adam_hill]: and how

637
00:30:36,803 –> 00:30:36,947
[alice_penn_]: yeah

638
00:30:37,016 –> 00:30:43,046
[adam_hill]: we how we contribute some of those
situations but how know a lot of times

639
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:45,009
[adam_hill]: we’re just unaware you know we

640
00:30:45,042 –> 00:30:45,063
[alice_penn_]: m

641
00:30:45,109 –> 00:30:48,174
[adam_hill]: think that you know our world is
a lot smaller in those points than we

642
00:30:48,234 –> 00:30:48,375
[adam_hill]: think

643
00:30:48,312 –> 00:30:48,333
[alice_penn_]: m

644
00:30:48,415 –> 00:30:48,775
[adam_hill]: they are

645
00:30:49,124 –> 00:30:49,268
[alice_penn_]: yeah

646
00:30:49,637 –> 00:30:54,000
[adam_hill]: and we don’t realize that it’s it’s
much bigger until we kind of get that

647
00:30:54,121 –> 00:30:58,408
[adam_hill]: get that sense of exposure think that’s
where hopelessness and hope kind of come into

648
00:30:58,468 –> 00:30:58,668
[adam_hill]: play

649
00:30:58,983 –> 00:30:59,103
[alice_penn_]: yeah

650
00:30:59,449 –> 00:31:06,021
[adam_hill]: um but you know now you kind
of you you’re you’re living this this life

651
00:31:06,101 –> 00:31:10,550
[adam_hill]: is as a as a coach as
an international coach you know consultant you speak

652
00:31:10,971 –> 00:31:12,394
[adam_hill]: on these subjects and everything like that

653
00:31:13,923 –> 00:31:14,144
[alice_penn_]: oh

654
00:31:14,038 –> 00:31:18,756
[adam_hill]: and to the aspect of identity and
how you are how how you’re shaping your

655
00:31:18,796 –> 00:31:23,584
[adam_hill]: identity now what does that look like
as far as how you’re defining your identity

656
00:31:23,684 –> 00:31:26,049
[adam_hill]: or not defining it what does that
look like

657
00:31:27,675 –> 00:31:34,977
[alice_penn_]: look i one of the things that
really helped me was the approach of having

658
00:31:35,097 –> 00:31:37,240
[alice_penn_]: a future identity and

659
00:31:37,242 –> 00:31:37,263
[adam_hill]: h

660
00:31:37,301 –> 00:31:38,022
[alice_penn_]: this is actually

661
00:31:37,929 –> 00:31:37,950
[adam_hill]: m

662
00:31:38,082 –> 00:31:42,469
[alice_penn_]: a neuro science thing but originally one
of the first people to talk about it

663
00:31:42,529 –> 00:31:47,723
[alice_penn_]: that i’m aware of is what victor
frank who you’ve probably heard of hollocos survivor

664
00:31:48,400 –> 00:31:48,622
[adam_hill]: yes

665
00:31:48,526 –> 00:31:54,659
[alice_penn_]: but he was i think he was
a psychiatrist a neurologist neuro biologist like you

666
00:31:54,699 –> 00:32:00,830
[alice_penn_]: had you know many specialities before the
war he got married just before the war

667
00:32:00,850 –> 00:32:05,698
[alice_penn_]: when he was writing a book um
and he had the manuscript with him and

668
00:32:05,918 –> 00:32:07,481
[alice_penn_]: they were taken into the camps

669
00:32:07,262 –> 00:32:07,344
[adam_hill]: oh

670
00:32:07,801 –> 00:32:12,048
[alice_penn_]: and i think he watched his father
dies mother died they were taken you know

671
00:32:12,108 –> 00:32:13,410
[alice_penn_]: he was in the end an ashvitzs

672
00:32:13,020 –> 00:32:13,164
[adam_hill]: ye

673
00:32:13,491 –> 00:32:16,436
[alice_penn_]: wife also died and i think

674
00:32:16,350 –> 00:32:17,310
[adam_hill]: oh

675
00:32:16,536 –> 00:32:19,421
[alice_penn_]: his mother and brother with him towards
the end and they were guests in the

676
00:32:19,481 –> 00:32:20,542
[alice_penn_]: chambers but

677
00:32:20,460 –> 00:32:20,480
[adam_hill]: m

678
00:32:20,602 –> 00:32:21,845
[alice_penn_]: what had got him through was the

679
00:32:21,789 –> 00:32:21,810
[adam_hill]: m

680
00:32:21,885 –> 00:32:28,075
[alice_penn_]: writing of this manuscript and when the
night guards the manuscript had been hiding on

681
00:32:28,155 –> 00:32:32,282
[alice_penn_]: him the whole way through so for
years he’d been hiding this manuscript i think

682
00:32:32,322 –> 00:32:35,267
[alice_penn_]: he felt that his whole life had
sort of fallen apart because this is the

683
00:32:35,307 –> 00:32:38,532
[alice_penn_]: thing that been kept keeping him going
and in that moment he had a choice

684
00:32:39,133 –> 00:32:43,220
[alice_penn_]: and he talks about this idea of
a future identity he chose the victor frankell

685
00:32:43,280 –> 00:32:45,203
[alice_penn_]: that he was picturing

686
00:32:45,085 –> 00:32:45,147
[adam_hill]: ah

687
00:32:45,264 –> 00:32:46,426
[alice_penn_]: would be back

688
00:32:46,548 –> 00:32:46,731
[adam_hill]: not

689
00:32:47,688 –> 00:32:48,309
[alice_penn_]: outside

690
00:32:48,492 –> 00:32:48,512
[adam_hill]: i

691
00:32:49,030 –> 00:32:52,476
[alice_penn_]: living as a free man with a
book that was published

692
00:32:52,543 –> 00:32:53,100
[adam_hill]: yeah

693
00:32:52,876 –> 00:32:54,980
[alice_penn_]: and as a successful author and he

694
00:32:55,211 –> 00:32:55,860
[adam_hill]: hm

695
00:32:55,220 –> 00:32:59,087
[alice_penn_]: lived the rest of his time in
the camps as that person because he witnessed

696
00:32:59,167 –> 00:33:02,552
[alice_penn_]: the people dying around him and knew
that the ones who made it with a

697
00:33:02,753 –> 00:33:06,359
[alice_penn_]: so you had this bigger purpose or
a future purpose of identity

698
00:33:07,270 –> 00:33:07,920
[adam_hill]: hm

699
00:33:07,400 –> 00:33:08,202
[alice_penn_]: and then many of

700
00:33:08,220 –> 00:33:08,240
[adam_hill]: m

701
00:33:08,342 –> 00:33:13,731
[alice_penn_]: the more modern day self help books
that you may read people like james clear

702
00:33:13,891 –> 00:33:17,665
[alice_penn_]: in atomic habit and benjamin had for
the others they talk about the same thing

703
00:33:18,429 –> 00:33:25,238
[alice_penn_]: so what i did and if you’re
talking about identity is one of the things

704
00:33:25,258 –> 00:33:32,224
[alice_penn_]: that help me in my lowest moment
was actually spending time visualizing alice that could

705
00:33:32,324 –> 00:33:36,050
[alice_penn_]: be at her best or a hundred
percent alice no

706
00:33:35,971 –> 00:33:36,031
[adam_hill]: hm

707
00:33:36,151 –> 00:33:41,059
[alice_penn_]: hold bar what could life be like
and just starting to picture and feel where

708
00:33:41,119 –> 00:33:46,270
[alice_penn_]: am i living what do i eat
who with what if i do you know

709
00:33:46,591 –> 00:33:50,801
[alice_penn_]: all the little details and really starting
to feel the energy and emotion around that

710
00:33:51,683 –> 00:33:52,203
[alice_penn_]: and at first

711
00:33:52,110 –> 00:33:52,130
[adam_hill]: m

712
00:33:52,264 –> 00:33:53,005
[alice_penn_]: when somebody told me

713
00:33:53,019 –> 00:33:53,040
[adam_hill]: m

714
00:33:53,045 –> 00:33:56,150
[alice_penn_]: to start doing this i thought oh
this is a bunch of woo nonsense and

715
00:33:56,190 –> 00:34:01,238
[alice_penn_]: then i understood that this is about
creating new neural pathways this

716
00:34:01,172 –> 00:34:01,192
[adam_hill]: m

717
00:34:01,319 –> 00:34:01,739
[alice_penn_]: is about

718
00:34:01,839 –> 00:34:01,860
[adam_hill]: m

719
00:34:01,880 –> 00:34:05,746
[alice_penn_]: starting to think and feel in it
different way and it’s actually a discipline and

720
00:34:05,766 –> 00:34:09,693
[alice_penn_]: you almost have to force yourself to
do it so every morning at my lowest

721
00:34:09,773 –> 00:34:13,940
[alice_penn_]: point i used to spend five to
ten minutes picturing this alice in a wonderful

722
00:34:13,980 –> 00:34:18,267
[alice_penn_]: life and it soon came the best
part of my day because

723
00:34:18,040 –> 00:34:18,203
[adam_hill]: yeah

724
00:34:18,327 –> 00:34:25,258
[alice_penn_]: i felt so fantastic afterwards but sure
enough pushing my brain into that energy into

725
00:34:25,319 –> 00:34:28,744
[alice_penn_]: those thoughts my life look le started
to change

726
00:34:29,430 –> 00:34:29,450
[adam_hill]: m

727
00:34:29,585 –> 00:34:30,527
[alice_penn_]: so i

728
00:34:30,669 –> 00:34:30,690
[adam_hill]: m

729
00:34:30,707 –> 00:34:35,265
[alice_penn_]: can’t say that i have a fixed
identity i am this person but what i

730
00:34:35,365 –> 00:34:42,074
[alice_penn_]: do have is every day thinking about
what actions do i take today are they

731
00:34:42,294 –> 00:34:49,648
[alice_penn_]: serving future alice or not um so
that i’m not living in the past i’m

732
00:34:49,729 –> 00:34:54,957
[alice_penn_]: not continuing to sort of lead live
this predictable past becomes my my predictable future

733
00:34:55,578 –> 00:34:57,221
[alice_penn_]: i think those are the words of
joe spenser

734
00:34:57,042 –> 00:34:57,207
[adam_hill]: yeah

735
00:34:57,822 –> 00:34:59,527
[alice_penn_]: but if i can live

736
00:34:59,471 –> 00:34:59,491
[adam_hill]: i

737
00:34:59,648 –> 00:35:02,076
[alice_penn_]: as future self and make decisions today
that

738
00:35:02,010 –> 00:35:02,233
[adam_hill]: oh

739
00:35:02,256 –> 00:35:05,145
[alice_penn_]: serve future me that will help

740
00:35:05,041 –> 00:35:05,143
[adam_hill]: ah

741
00:35:05,305 –> 00:35:06,668
[alice_penn_]: me continue to make

742
00:35:06,694 –> 00:35:06,797
[adam_hill]: ah

743
00:35:06,729 –> 00:35:07,591
[alice_penn_]: change in my life

744
00:35:07,500 –> 00:35:08,400
[adam_hill]: oh

745
00:35:07,731 –> 00:35:11,901
[alice_penn_]: so yeah i don’t have a fixed
identity but i certainly have an idea of

746
00:35:12,583 –> 00:35:18,246
[alice_penn_]: full potential hundred percent alice actually how
fantastic life could be

747
00:35:18,720 –> 00:35:19,169
[adam_hill]: oh

748
00:35:18,807 –> 00:35:20,931
[alice_penn_]: to try and live in that space

749
00:35:21,860 –> 00:35:26,809
[adam_hill]: so no fixed identity but you are
living in that future identity self or you’re

750
00:35:26,869 –> 00:35:31,476
[adam_hill]: trying to live more in that you’re
doing that as a practice every morning um

751
00:35:31,577 –> 00:35:34,802
[adam_hill]: that’s a that’s a great way and
that and that that’s part of science so

752
00:35:34,862 –> 00:35:35,583
[adam_hill]: that’s part

753
00:35:35,463 –> 00:35:35,684
[alice_penn_]: oh

754
00:35:35,623 –> 00:35:38,969
[adam_hill]: of the science of change that you
talk about and that you share about getting

755
00:35:38,989 –> 00:35:44,799
[adam_hill]: into the neuro science of that um
so how does that look in terms of

756
00:35:45,600 –> 00:35:50,967
[adam_hill]: of how that works within your program
the solving for stock and the science of

757
00:35:51,027 –> 00:35:52,149
[adam_hill]: change those kinds of things

758
00:35:52,143 –> 00:35:56,789
[alice_penn_]: ye yeah so the first the first
thing i take people through is why they

759
00:35:56,909 –> 00:35:58,692
[alice_penn_]: with me in the first place so
why are they

760
00:35:58,625 –> 00:35:58,645
[adam_hill]: m

761
00:35:58,792 –> 00:35:59,313
[alice_penn_]: stuck because what

762
00:35:59,259 –> 00:35:59,280
[adam_hill]: m

763
00:35:59,373 –> 00:36:03,761
[alice_penn_]: we don’t want to do is take
somebody through a coaching program and then they

764
00:36:03,841 –> 00:36:08,108
[alice_penn_]: land up in the same position again
or the concerns that i have is that

765
00:36:08,148 –> 00:36:12,135
[alice_penn_]: if you haven’t addressed i think this
comes from my medical days if you haven’t

766
00:36:12,175 –> 00:36:18,125
[alice_penn_]: addressed the real root cause and then
you start making decisions about your profession and

767
00:36:18,165 –> 00:36:23,273
[alice_penn_]: your working life but you haven’t actually
addressed the mind set you’re probably not going

768
00:36:23,333 –> 00:36:29,976
[alice_penn_]: to make the right choice because most
people are really held captive by self limiting

769
00:36:30,036 –> 00:36:31,201
[alice_penn_]: beliefs i

770
00:36:31,200 –> 00:36:32,220
[adam_hill]: mhm

771
00:36:31,362 –> 00:36:35,686
[alice_penn_]: say the beliefs you have the beliefs
you are had by

772
00:36:37,142 –> 00:36:37,305
[adam_hill]: ah

773
00:36:37,293 –> 00:36:42,626
[alice_penn_]: so i like to work early on
with people on their self limiting beliefs and

774
00:36:42,706 –> 00:36:45,893
[alice_penn_]: starting to create new beliefs and challenging
them and then

775
00:36:45,751 –> 00:36:45,772
[adam_hill]: m

776
00:36:46,033 –> 00:36:46,554
[alice_penn_]: move into

777
00:36:46,479 –> 00:36:46,500
[adam_hill]: m

778
00:36:46,975 –> 00:36:51,502
[alice_penn_]: the science of change before we move
into well where are you at your best

779
00:36:51,603 –> 00:36:55,509
[alice_penn_]: what is your genius what is your
super power you can’t do this sort of

780
00:36:55,549 –> 00:36:59,493
[alice_penn_]: what is your genius super power what’s
unique out o work unless you’ve kind of

781
00:36:59,734 –> 00:37:03,981
[alice_penn_]: tried to start to make the change
and address the mind set side of things

782
00:37:04,001 –> 00:37:07,246
[alice_penn_]: and then we can get really practical
after that and move into

783
00:37:07,012 –> 00:37:07,680
[adam_hill]: h m

784
00:37:07,767 –> 00:37:12,058
[alice_penn_]: how to create opportunities how to go
forward from there but that’s how bring that

785
00:37:12,219 –> 00:37:13,969
[alice_penn_]: side into into the work that i
do

786
00:37:14,680 –> 00:37:18,306
[adam_hill]: so it’s kind of like removing the
blockage first getting that mind set right

787
00:37:18,134 –> 00:37:18,258
[alice_penn_]: yeah

788
00:37:18,406 –> 00:37:19,688
[adam_hill]: and then doing the deep work

789
00:37:20,203 –> 00:37:20,345
[alice_penn_]: yeah

790
00:37:20,329 –> 00:37:20,890
[adam_hill]: um and

791
00:37:20,871 –> 00:37:21,296
[alice_penn_]: exactly

792
00:37:20,930 –> 00:37:25,518
[adam_hill]: that kind of sounds like you’re getting
into that flow state helping getting into

793
00:37:25,505 –> 00:37:25,912
[alice_penn_]: exactly

794
00:37:25,558 –> 00:37:30,136
[adam_hill]: that flow state which you can or
that what the unlocking of geniuses is getting

795
00:37:30,093 –> 00:37:30,843
[alice_penn_]: yeah

796
00:37:30,156 –> 00:37:30,657
[adam_hill]: them into flow

797
00:37:31,723 –> 00:37:35,788
[alice_penn_]: exactly my actually i have a little
phrase for for that modula which is when

798
00:37:35,829 –> 00:37:39,353
[alice_penn_]: you find your flow your success will
grow and

799
00:37:39,307 –> 00:37:39,960
[adam_hill]: hm

800
00:37:39,413 –> 00:37:43,980
[alice_penn_]: i always tell the story of oprwinfrey
but i don’t usually announce that it’s open

801
00:37:44,021 –> 00:37:49,369
[alice_penn_]: at the start of the story but
from what i understand she was hard working

802
00:37:49,430 –> 00:37:54,438
[alice_penn_]: at school and she had one a
radio show show competition and i think she’d

803
00:37:54,478 –> 00:37:57,603
[alice_penn_]: been asked what she wanted to be
and she decided quite early on she wanted

804
00:37:57,643 –> 00:38:00,207
[alice_penn_]: to be a news broadcaster

805
00:38:00,720 –> 00:38:02,190
[adam_hill]: mhmm

806
00:38:00,829 –> 00:38:03,693
[alice_penn_]: and she worked her way up and
she was doing quite well the world of

807
00:38:03,733 –> 00:38:09,023
[alice_penn_]: reading the news but she was i
guess criticized for some of the way she

808
00:38:09,083 –> 00:38:11,928
[alice_penn_]: did it now she had her hero
was barbara walters and she just wanted to

809
00:38:11,968 –> 00:38:12,950
[alice_penn_]: be like barbara walters

810
00:38:13,693 –> 00:38:13,734
[adam_hill]: m

811
00:38:14,763 –> 00:38:18,046
[alice_penn_]: but she was criticized for how she
spoke and i guess how she looked and

812
00:38:18,246 –> 00:38:22,631
[alice_penn_]: they had some they were not moving
her beyond a certain point she reached the

813
00:38:22,671 –> 00:38:28,894
[alice_penn_]: threshold she was moved to a daytime
talk show which for her was a real

814
00:38:29,015 –> 00:38:34,473
[alice_penn_]: side step and she felt it was
a emotion it wasn’t as intellectually challenging but

815
00:38:34,553 –> 00:38:39,100
[alice_penn_]: she also recognized early on that all
the things they’re criticizing for her in the

816
00:38:39,181 –> 00:38:43,428
[alice_penn_]: news broadcasting role are the things that
are making her great in this role and

817
00:38:43,465 –> 00:38:44,070
[adam_hill]: hm

818
00:38:43,488 –> 00:38:49,037
[alice_penn_]: her ability to connect with people and
be real and go off camera and we

819
00:38:49,137 –> 00:38:52,743
[alice_penn_]: all know her success story from there
so she had you know the signs

820
00:38:52,680 –> 00:38:53,164
[adam_hill]: oh

821
00:38:52,783 –> 00:38:57,651
[alice_penn_]: from the universe she’ll say saying you
are in the right place do this so

822
00:38:58,853 –> 00:39:02,479
[alice_penn_]: what i try to do if people
is figure out where is it that you’re

823
00:39:02,539 –> 00:39:04,603
[alice_penn_]: going to be at your best and
it’s not

824
00:39:04,493 –> 00:39:05,160
[adam_hill]: hm

825
00:39:04,663 –> 00:39:07,728
[alice_penn_]: for everybody not everybody needs to quit
their job like i do and do such

826
00:39:07,788 –> 00:39:12,316
[alice_penn_]: a radical pivot it could be that
you need to craft your current role or

827
00:39:12,937 –> 00:39:16,643
[alice_penn_]: craft your work within your organization to
put you in the place that you are

828
00:39:16,863 –> 00:39:18,787
[alice_penn_]: more in your zone of genius more
often

829
00:39:19,470 –> 00:39:19,631
[adam_hill]: yeah

830
00:39:19,668 –> 00:39:23,016
[alice_penn_]: and this is how we prevent burn
out and we bring more purpose fulfillment to

831
00:39:23,056 –> 00:39:27,575
[alice_penn_]: what we do so not everybody needs
to go sort of zero to hero like

832
00:39:27,635 –> 00:39:30,099
[alice_penn_]: me you know i’m very extreme not
everybody

833
00:39:29,880 –> 00:39:30,040
[adam_hill]: right

834
00:39:30,159 –> 00:39:33,124
[alice_penn_]: needs to do that not everybody needs
to then quit corporate and

835
00:39:33,150 –> 00:39:34,140
[adam_hill]: oh

836
00:39:33,224 –> 00:39:35,869
[alice_penn_]: start their own business which are still
you know i think is great for many

837
00:39:36,743 –> 00:39:37,350
[adam_hill]: hm

838
00:39:36,890 –> 00:39:40,298
[alice_penn_]: but it’s about knowing where am i
at my best and how do i bring

839
00:39:40,358 –> 00:39:45,011
[alice_penn_]: that to my work every day so
that i can be more fulfilled truly excell

840
00:39:45,833 –> 00:39:47,200
[alice_penn_]: and usually have more purpose

841
00:39:47,940 –> 00:39:51,486
[adam_hill]: i think that’s such an important point
because a lot of high achievers and i

842
00:39:51,526 –> 00:39:55,071
[adam_hill]: know there’s a lot of coaches at
work with high achievers that just try to

843
00:39:55,132 –> 00:39:59,439
[adam_hill]: get their absolute best all of the
time out of out of somebody and i

844
00:39:59,699 –> 00:40:02,163
[adam_hill]: speak to that perfection is part that
you are

845
00:40:02,085 –> 00:40:02,228
[alice_penn_]: yeah

846
00:40:02,424 –> 00:40:06,230
[adam_hill]: talking about i mean a lot of
and and and a lot of people i

847
00:40:06,270 –> 00:40:09,616
[adam_hill]: mean look at if you look at
somebody like david goggins who’s an ultra

848
00:40:09,659 –> 00:40:10,233
[alice_penn_]: hm

849
00:40:09,716 –> 00:40:10,798
[adam_hill]: distance person

850
00:40:10,713 –> 00:40:11,218
[alice_penn_]: oh

851
00:40:11,419 –> 00:40:15,365
[adam_hill]: you know ways challenging people saying you
know you’re only doing forty percent of what

852
00:40:15,385 –> 00:40:15,966
[adam_hill]: you’re capable

853
00:40:15,586 –> 00:40:15,729
[alice_penn_]: yeah

854
00:40:16,066 –> 00:40:20,253
[adam_hill]: of and you always got to push
beyond this it’s like well you know i

855
00:40:20,294 –> 00:40:23,098
[adam_hill]: don’t think everybody needs to be david
goggins nobody

856
00:40:23,073 –> 00:40:23,155
[alice_penn_]: no

857
00:40:23,258 –> 00:40:28,187
[adam_hill]: not everybody it’s to be you know
that that extreme person you know sometimes giving

858
00:40:28,447 –> 00:40:32,995
[adam_hill]: seventy or eighty percent is enough it’s
the best you can do otherwise when you’re

859
00:40:33,075 –> 00:40:36,642
[adam_hill]: giving a hundred and ten per cent
all the time you’re going to burn you’re

860
00:40:36,682 –> 00:40:39,772
[adam_hill]: gonna have a lot of those mental
health issues that you’re gonna you’re not going

861
00:40:39,812 –> 00:40:42,774
[adam_hill]: to give yourself the capacity to overcome

862
00:40:42,523 –> 00:40:42,907
[alice_penn_]: i agree

863
00:40:43,730 –> 00:40:43,871
[adam_hill]: yeah

864
00:40:44,133 –> 00:40:48,548
[alice_penn_]: i agree i think i think it’s
about choosing where you place your energy so

865
00:40:48,583 –> 00:40:49,170
[adam_hill]: hm

866
00:40:48,689 –> 00:40:54,799
[alice_penn_]: for me working really hard and sort
of david goggins to the max in medicine

867
00:40:55,440 –> 00:40:59,677
[alice_penn_]: sure i was doing well i was
burning up because i wasn’t in my genius

868
00:40:59,737 –> 00:40:59,977
[alice_penn_]: zone

869
00:41:00,872 –> 00:41:00,892
[adam_hill]: h

870
00:41:00,899 –> 00:41:01,860
[alice_penn_]: i could have probably

871
00:41:01,779 –> 00:41:01,800
[adam_hill]: m

872
00:41:02,441 –> 00:41:06,188
[alice_penn_]: pulled back a bit and been in
a better environment and been been more successful

873
00:41:06,348 –> 00:41:11,543
[alice_penn_]: however what i do think is useful
but about guggnses the notion that when you

874
00:41:11,603 –> 00:41:15,730
[alice_penn_]: are staying to feel that resistance that
is just the beginning of what you are

875
00:41:15,790 –> 00:41:18,996
[alice_penn_]: still capable of and i think that’s
really important for

876
00:41:18,870 –> 00:41:18,890
[adam_hill]: m

877
00:41:19,316 –> 00:41:20,037
[alice_penn_]: you know people

878
00:41:19,959 –> 00:41:20,255
[adam_hill]: m oh

879
00:41:20,077 –> 00:41:25,787
[alice_penn_]: that are becoming trupenurs or you know
just in in life in general or in

880
00:41:25,827 –> 00:41:29,834
[alice_penn_]: the working environment that you do have
you do have more to give i think

881
00:41:30,034 –> 00:41:36,284
[alice_penn_]: is an important message but certainly some
of his approach is a little bit more

882
00:41:36,304 –> 00:41:40,267
[alice_penn_]: extreme and probably not for everybody good
when you are trying to push through to

883
00:41:40,307 –> 00:41:42,950
[alice_penn_]: get a good marathon time or something
like that but

884
00:41:42,910 –> 00:41:43,090
[adam_hill]: sure

885
00:41:43,570 –> 00:41:45,192
[alice_penn_]: not necessarily on a day to day

886
00:41:46,155 –> 00:41:48,880
[adam_hill]: right right it’s a great point

887
00:41:49,383 –> 00:41:49,403
[alice_penn_]: m

888
00:41:49,881 –> 00:41:53,768
[adam_hill]: and so what’s so what’s next for
you what are you working on now what

889
00:41:53,828 –> 00:41:57,858
[adam_hill]: are you what is future identity alice
look like at this point

890
00:41:59,275 –> 00:42:02,000
[alice_penn_]: so i’m trying to grow my business
and

891
00:42:02,195 –> 00:42:02,215
[adam_hill]: m

892
00:42:02,340 –> 00:42:06,046
[alice_penn_]: i’m still taking one to one clients
for my coaching program which is a four

893
00:42:06,086 –> 00:42:08,110
[alice_penn_]: to six months program and

894
00:42:08,053 –> 00:42:08,640
[adam_hill]: hm

895
00:42:08,450 –> 00:42:13,419
[alice_penn_]: i’m also developing a program to work
with corporates to help people through transition so

896
00:42:13,719 –> 00:42:18,207
[alice_penn_]: perhaps people coming back from burn out
or illness or even after some kind of

897
00:42:18,287 –> 00:42:27,311
[alice_penn_]: career break how to transition through through
the sort of change really successfully perhaps

898
00:42:27,049 –> 00:42:27,090
[adam_hill]: h

899
00:42:27,712 –> 00:42:27,852
[alice_penn_]: may

900
00:42:27,879 –> 00:42:27,900
[adam_hill]: m

901
00:42:27,932 –> 00:42:31,478
[alice_penn_]: be a new role within work or
promotion so i’m also doing that and i’m

902
00:42:31,538 –> 00:42:32,740
[alice_penn_]: trying to pick up my

903
00:42:33,039 –> 00:42:33,060
[adam_hill]: m

904
00:42:33,361 –> 00:42:40,153
[alice_penn_]: my speaking career a little bit again
so i’m still in the growth phase but

905
00:42:40,413 –> 00:42:40,794
[alice_penn_]: yeah i’m

906
00:42:40,773 –> 00:42:40,874
[adam_hill]: ah

907
00:42:40,874 –> 00:42:46,624
[alice_penn_]: excited to maybe start creating courses and
deliver more of a one to many

908
00:42:46,470 –> 00:42:46,694
[adam_hill]: yeah

909
00:42:46,665 –> 00:42:48,751
[alice_penn_]: approach along with my one to one
coaching

910
00:42:49,640 –> 00:42:53,465
[adam_hill]: i love that so it’s uh yeah
and you’ve got a lot to give you’ve

911
00:42:53,485 –> 00:42:59,213
[adam_hill]: got a lot of experience here and
it’s just such a perfect balance of you

912
00:42:59,253 –> 00:43:04,702
[adam_hill]: know helping people change helping organizations change
whose organizations are like you know they’re like

913
00:43:04,742 –> 00:43:06,485
[adam_hill]: people too they have identity crises

914
00:43:06,473 –> 00:43:06,595
[alice_penn_]: yeah

915
00:43:07,086 –> 00:43:07,947
[adam_hill]: so they need

916
00:43:07,803 –> 00:43:07,823
[alice_penn_]: m

917
00:43:08,048 –> 00:43:13,617
[adam_hill]: that that management their identities too so
just the fact that you are you have

918
00:43:13,697 –> 00:43:17,584
[adam_hill]: the background that you do you have
the experts and that credibility is a doctor

919
00:43:17,744 –> 00:43:26,118
[adam_hill]: helping companies and in finance and now
you’re bringing that science to personal development which

920
00:43:26,178 –> 00:43:26,258
[adam_hill]: is

921
00:43:26,486 –> 00:43:26,628
[alice_penn_]: yeah

922
00:43:26,619 –> 00:43:32,028
[adam_hill]: which is huge and so i’m very
grateful you were sharing your wisdom and your

923
00:43:32,048 –> 00:43:36,455
[adam_hill]: experience with us today a lot of
people who you know are high achievers who

924
00:43:36,635 –> 00:43:41,263
[adam_hill]: who want to achieve more can really
relate to a story like yours you know

925
00:43:41,323 –> 00:43:47,473
[adam_hill]: coming from that perfectionist background you know
trying to uh work through through your identity

926
00:43:47,513 –> 00:43:50,799
[adam_hill]: through the challenge you’ve faced but realizing
that that identity does not shape

927
00:43:50,853 –> 00:43:51,237
[alice_penn_]: oh

928
00:43:50,859 –> 00:43:54,766
[adam_hill]: you and that you are you know
who the future identity of what you want

929
00:43:54,806 –> 00:44:00,495
[adam_hill]: to be that’s who you are so
thank you so much for joining us today

930
00:44:01,276 –> 00:44:08,428
[adam_hill]: ali has a coaching program called success
r x re define your professional path and

931
00:44:08,729 –> 00:44:13,774
[adam_hill]: it tis signed for people for organizations
that are stuck and and so if that

932
00:44:14,095 –> 00:44:18,459
[adam_hill]: defines you please reach out to alice
and alice where can people find you

933
00:44:19,854 –> 00:44:23,981
[alice_penn_]: so i’m on alice pain m d
dot com and on my side

934
00:44:23,815 –> 00:44:24,330
[adam_hill]: hm

935
00:44:24,481 –> 00:44:29,690
[alice_penn_]: there’s places that you can go and
book a free call i offer everybody one

936
00:44:29,810 –> 00:44:34,478
[alice_penn_]: our frecoachings if i can help you
so don’t be shy book in if i

937
00:44:34,518 –> 00:44:37,163
[alice_penn_]: can help you i can if i
can’t i’ll try and find somebody who can

938
00:44:38,405 –> 00:44:42,992
[alice_penn_]: also i’ve just started my youtube channel
so just search for alice pain m d

939
00:44:43,633 –> 00:44:48,238
[alice_penn_]: and i’m quite active on on linked
in and instagram alice pen under school m

940
00:44:48,318 –> 00:44:49,760
[alice_penn_]: d so give me a follow there

941
00:44:50,690 –> 00:44:51,351
[adam_hill]: fantastic

942
00:44:50,721 –> 00:44:51,642
[alice_penn_]: thank you so much adam

943
00:44:52,212 –> 00:44:55,859
[adam_hill]: now thank you alas this was a
wonderful interview and i appreciate you sharing your

944
00:44:55,899 –> 00:44:59,947
[adam_hill]: wisdom and to everybody else out there
thank you for joining us and we’ll see

945
00:44:59,987 –> 00:45:00,929
[adam_hill]: you next time

946
00:45:01,664 –> 00:45:02,172
[alice_penn_]: thanks adam