Keeping the End in Mind with Bob Wheatley
There are so many unknowns in this world, and uncertainty leads to fear – but faith is one of the antidotes to fear. In order for us to rise above it, we need to lean into a power greater than ourselves that is going to help bring us closer to living our full potential as spiritual beings.
In today’s episode, Adam Hill speaks with Bob Wheatley, author, podcaster, and former professional baseball player. Bob serves as the co-host of That Singles’ Show, a singles’ ministry sponsored by KCBI Christian radio in Dallas. Listen in as Bob sheds light on the world of spirituality, keeping the end in mind, and tapping into pain to achieve transformation.
Here are some power takeaways from today’s conversation:
- How we can set better goals
- How to discern our connection with God
- Begin with the end in mind
- God’s will vs. human free will
- The three things needed for catharsis to happen
- Realizing the gift that pain brings
[13:29] Keeping the End in Mind
If we want to be highly effective, we begin with the end in mind. The problem is, a lot of people don’t do that in terms of their entire life. Meaning, we don’t keep the end of our lives in mind. They keep the end of the project or the end of the year, but we don’t think about the end of our life.
[18:56] God’s Will vs. Free Will
We can’t escape God’s sovereign will. But he wants us to love him. And so, how is it possible to love without free will? Otherwise, we would just be robots. It’s not genuine if we don’t have the choice to say no.
[25:12] Just Because It Hurts, Doesn’t Mean It’s Bad
How can a good God let bad things happen? Think of our personal trainers where we literally hire people to hurt us. And they hurt us on purpose so we can be better on the back end of it. That is what the Bible says that God does through the difficulties in our lives. Our heavenly Father knows us even better than our earthly father does. There is a difference between pain and something that’s negative. Just because it hurts doesn’t mean it’s bad. God has good plans for us and he uses our pain to shape us and conform us to his character.
As the Bible says, happy are those who mourn, happy are the meek, and happy are the poor in spirit. Why? Because when you have those negative things and painful experiences, you can actually see God. And more importantly, you see your need for God. Therefore, you have to embrace the pain because that’s where growth and transformation will happen.
if we want to be highly effective we begin with the end in mind the problem is I think a lot of people don’t do thatin terms of their entire life they don’t think about the and they don’t keep the end of their life in mindthey keep the end of the project the end of the year whatever it is so like it isone end right they’re thinking about the house they’re building the company they’re creating whatever it is you knowthe the two-year-old son who in 18 years like you sent him off to college like begin with the end in mind raise a goodson mm-hmm but I think a lot of times we don’t think about the end of our lifehello everyone and welcome to the flow over fear podcast where it is ourmission to help you to rise above fear and realize your ultimate potential inleadership and life I’m your host Adam Hill and it is my goal to share with youthe human side of high performance my guests share their experience with fear anxiety struggle Challenge and mostimportantly despite all of it how they Rose above it to achieve incredibleresults so if you’re ready to rise up let’s get startedhey everyone welcome to flow over fear and you know today I want to talk about a subject that is very important andvery very much related to uh fear you know within the world of transformation uh it can be precipitated by or at leasta company some sort of spiritual transformation some sort of spiritual uhelevation that we might have or Spiritual Awakening and a lot of time you know faith can be one of theantidotes for fear and I want to bring that into this conversation because uh because a lot of people wrestle withthat a lot of people struggle with it I know I know I have and I think it’s an important struggle it’s an important uhthing for us to struggle with it and and work through which brings me to my guesttoday Bob Wheatley is an author a podcaster and a former baseball player that serves as the co-host of thatsingle show a singles Ministry sponsored by KCBI Christian radio in Dallas through his work there he has workedwith best-selling authors Keynote speakers and world-renowned musicians people like Rory Vaden Rachel Cruz JasonGray and Christian Huff much of his work has been syndicated nationally and as anauthor and a content creator Bob has a passion for helping people grow closer to God and to experience greater loveand connection after graduating from USC Bob played for four years in the TorontoBlue Jays and the St Louis Cardinals minor league systems he’s the author of a brand new book called our heartsdesire how our stories reveal the thing we want most a book that helps readersdiscover God through their favorite stories and experience the love joy andfreedom that they seek it’s available on Amazon pick it up I’ve been reading itand it is very very well written and I’m excited to dive deep in that but likeany story there’s always an origin story and I’m always interested in origin stories and I want to I want to kind of get a feelfor your origin story because you lived something of the dream of many many young boys including myself I rememberwhen I was a young kid I would be uh throwing a tennis ball against my garage door thinking I was a famous pitcher andyou know thinking I was pitching to Kirk Gibson or what have you um but uh I ended up not being such agreat baseball player I I I always said that I’m I was a second string benchwarmer on a team that went 0-10 inhigh school and that was the end of it for me but can you kind of walk through your career and what you learned through that experience how you know how you gotstarted in that how that dream precipitated and what got you there well thank you for that intro Adam I thinkthe lesson to be learned on your high school team there is if they had played you maybe you guys would have won acouple games that’s what I’m hearing from that yeah that let’s let’s say that that’s they were keeping the best playeron the bench what are they doing no thank you thank you for sharing that um yeah I grew up in Southern Californialike you said I went to USC which I’ve learned since moving to Nashville you have to clarify what USC means whenI grew up in Orange County Los Angeles area there was one USC it was Universityof Southern Cal and so I’m a USC Trojan not uh you know South Carolina USC butuh yeah went to school in Los Angeles played for a couple years in the minor leagues and uh thank you for you knowsaying what you said about my baseball career I do want to just share some context I was a good baseball player Iwas not a world-class baseball player like I was a 26 round draft pick I was asenior sign I was number 774 overall so the Toronto Blue Jays called and theysaid hey will you take a thousand dollars and a plane ticket I was like duh sign me up so yes I played professionalbaseball but I was far from the Clayton Kershaw’s of the world that just wasn’tme but it was something that I really wanted I’d grown up an athlete playing baseball football probably similardreams to you and honestly I just got lucky I’m tall and I’m left-handed so you know that took mefurther than most people with probably similar talent and uh played for a couple years in the minors it was alwaysgoing to be a long shot for me to get to the big leagues but it was something that I really wanted and as long as youhave a uniform you do have a chance no matter how long that chance might be yeah well that’s that’s an importantPoint too because and I certainly don’t want to minimize that because just making it to where you made it to that’sthe top 0.0001 of of baseball players out thereand and that’s incredible and I I always I I’m in the world of triathlon so that’s kind of where my journey took meand um and that’s one of the things I tell people who do in Iron Man then they say well it wasn’t that great you know Ifinished the backpack I’m just like you’re doing something that you know point zero zero one percent of the world will never do but uh so so it’s a it’san incredible achievement but yeah you’re right looking up to the you know the Ken kershaws of the world and thosekind of people it is like you know you you want you look to that that’s the that’s the dreamum and that kind of leads into a question of of are we doing ourselves a disservice by by dreaming on on thatfront is it do is it is it good to dream is it bad to dream what what are your thoughts on thatyeah that’s such a multi-faceted question and just for for someonelistening who perhaps doesn’t know much about me or you know the book and things like that I am uh I’m a Christian I’msold out for God the book is a Christian nonfiction called our hearts desire how our stories reveal the thing we wantmost spoil alert what I believe is our stories reveal we want God we want toknow God and so just to answer that question through that lens is it rightor wrong to dream I think it really depends based off of what the Bible would sayGod as the author of our story you know our creator he knows the beginning fromthe end he he’s written everything now we have free will within that story likeyou know you chose to wear that hoodie today it wasn’t like God said Thou shalt where like you you chose that and yeahit was still ordained by him it was something that was written in his story forever and alwaysso when it comes to dreams I think I was actually just having a conversation witha friend earlier today we need to be conscious of the voices that we hearin our head and especially I’m speaking to the Christian listener because thereare some things that the American mind might say to you that the Christian mindor specifically the Bible God’s word would not say to you like and frankly you’ll hear it fromChristian stages these days you’ll see the Christian influencer like God wantsyou to be amazing and God has this amazing plan for your life and it just it sounds like a pep rally likesomething that you would hear in the motivational self-help spacethere’s nothing completely wrong with that like it’s not 100 false but from aBiblical worldview that might be incomplete like to say God has this amazing planfor your life he wants you to do crazy awesome things that that might not be true like aperfect example of this you have John the Baptist he’s Jesus’s cousin he kind of for those who don’tknow the story kind of paved the way for Jesus to come into the world is like this long-awaited Messiah and thescripture said hey there’s going to be someone that precedes the Messiah that basically like sounds the alarm like heyhe’s coming he’s coming John the Baptist was that person and Jesus said of John he was the greatestman who ever lived the greatest man born among women John the BaptistJohn the Baptist is quoted as saying I must decrease I must become less so thatJesus can become more so that’s like the opposite of this American like oh youneed to Dream Big Dreams and you need to have a vision board and you need to become awesome it’s likethat’s that’s an American thing and if your goal is to be an overachieving American and to win World Series and tobe on billboards you might actually achieve that but I as the Christian believe we need to setbetter goals if what the Bible says is true and there is a Godand that God wants to know us and loves us dearly let’sbefore we start like rolling out our dreams hey God this is what I want to be what do you think about it why don’t wesee what he has to say and conform our dreams and our hopes for the future towhat he wants for us so that that’s what I would say to that it’s a it’s a like two sides of the samecoin when it comes to Dreaming you can get in a lot of trouble if you take Godout of that equation I think the best case scenario is Lord I am totally available for youI I want Big Dreams but I want your dreams for medoes that make sense so like basically we are not the author of that story we’re receiving that from him knowing Imean it says in scripture one of my favorite verses is Isaiah 46. verses 9and 10. God says I am God there is no other I am God there is none like medeclaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done so he like any author he has the entirestory written and we’re sitting like we’re you know sitting in our room like oh man what’s gonna happen like he knowsand he said that your ending is is very good so it takes a lot of pressure off once you realize you don’t have to bethe author of your story you don’t have to be the dreamer of Big Dreams just sit at his feet and yeah he’ll getyou where you need to go it’ll be just fine so that’s that and that’s that’s interesting and I I like that that theframing of that because a lot of people get trapped in you know myself included for many years I you know I was trappedin this idea of like I gotta you know I gotta hustle I gotta make it to the top of the corporate ladder and I got to doall these things but it wasn’t filling it wasn’t fulfilling it felt like there wasn’t a a God in there right and andbecause but but what you’re saying is is if if we kind of let those things go and seek you know the spiritual guidancefirst that we can that we can you know essentially serve the world in the waythat we’re meant to so how how do we go about how do we how do we discern that how are we able to you know figure thatout because I could see that one path could lead down the path of fear and anger frustration and all of thesethings while the other path could lead to Greater peace you know greater greater joy and and and and ultimately aspiritual connection with a higher power with God how can we discern that but yeah the when you say that the firstthing that I think about there’s a couple of different times in scripture where whether it’s Jesus or it could bethe Apostle Paul tells us where to set our heart where to set our mind likeJesus talking specifically about money wherever your treasure is there your heart will be also so like if you careabout your bank account your your heart’s going to be on worldly Earthly things on this plane versus the Heavenlyplane like caring about the next life and the the Bible also tells us to setour mind on things above not the things of this world and so if I could translate that intothe self-help secular space like we’ve all read Stephen Covey begin with theend in mind right it’s one of the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People if we want to be highly effective we begin with the endin mind the problem is I think a lot of people don’t do that in terms of theirentire life they don’t think about the and they don’t keep the end of their life in mindthey keep the end of the project the end of the year whatever it is so like it isone end right they’re thinking about the house they’re building the company they’re creating whatever it is you knowthe the two-year-old son who in 18 years like you sent him off to college like begin with the end in mind raise a goodson mm-hmm but I think a lot of times we don’t think about the end of our lifeso we’re great fathers we build awesome businesses we accomplish a lot of thingswe meet all of these ends but we never address the final one because whetheryou’re a seven eight nine figure entrepreneur does not matter when you die like death is undefeated so thequestion is all right when that end comes what do you think happensand frankly whatever we think has no impact on what actually does happen it’snot like we’re creating that reality but a lot of people just don’t even think about it it’s like oh man that’s that’sso far away or if we’re being really honest that’s kind of scary I’m not gonna talk about that or think about itand so we just live in this Perpetual state of denial it’s like no what it what did Stephen Covey say begin withthe end in mind you’re worried about tax season right now or whatever it is like what happens when you die man yeah likelet’s think about that right because hey if you’re worried about tax season or football season orwhatever it is like there’s gonna be another season but we need to we need to begin with the end in mind yeah and soyeah from a from a Biblical perspective or a faith-based perspectiveonce you know that end or really when you put your trust in Jesus I meanthat’s what that’s what the Bible says in that there is one creator of this universethat creator has laid out a very specific story he said heyI made this great universe mankind then brought sin into thatuniverse and kind of kind of ruined it like stuff is falling apart now sure myend game is to fix it all I’m gonna restore that paradise the way that I do that is throughsacrificial love through giving my son all you have to do all you have to do issay yeah I’m on board with that I want to know that God because thatis radical that is that is amazing you’re telling me I get Paradise foreverand I don’t deserve it like tell me more about this offererof the banquet like who who is this God that is inviting me to a party with him foreverthat’s his invitation but once you understand that you look atfootball season differently you look at tax season differently because like hey you know I have the end in mind likeyeah this this is a tough season right now I’m tired I’m worn outfriends family health issues whatever it is but I know the endthat’s why and no no Christian does it perfectly but I mean I truly believe that we have areason for hope everything that we want everything which in a word is thatparadise we want Paradise yeah we have hope that we’ll have it oneday it will not be on this Earth there’s not going to be a single social initiative or any sort of non-profit501c3 that fixes this thing God will fix it but he promises thatthat’s where our hope is yeah so how do you how do you so you meant you talked alittle bit about the Free Will versus the you know the God’s will kind of thing and howum how you know God God does have that plan for our lives but we have free will within it so how do how do we reconcilehow do we operate in a world where we do have this Free Will where I have you know whereum you know where we can go out and do the things we want but but God has a will too how how do we avoidbeing subject to people’s will versus the the God’s will that loves us so tospeak how do we how do we get around that are you saying do we truly have free will if God is also Sovereign orlike when you when you said people’s will yeah I mean others or just help me to understand that a little bit I guesswhat I mean is is when when we think when I think about Free Will I think that that all human beings uh have ahave free will down to the you know molecular level you know God doesn’t put cancer in our bodies for example youknow the molecular free will you know forms that in our in our bodies or things like that but but uh um and thatthat I guess is my question in a world where that kind of free will exists how do we how do we lean into uh God’s Willand navigate through what you know I guess the obstacles of the Free Willthat other people might impose on us yeah does that make sense it does okay I well first of all I wrestle with thattoo I think before I answer the question I think we need to be okay with this question is somewhat unanswerable sureonly in that like let’s think about this on paper if we’re talking about a godlike a god capital G God do we really want to understand him perfectlybecause if you think about that like let’s say you’re you think about your mayor or you know your your Governor ourpresident that’s a human being that like can be understood and of course there’s so manydetails about that person that will never know but like we can fit thatperson into a box right they’re gonna be like six feet tall and 180 pounds and like that I understand that you can’t dothat with God so just going back to the Free Will thing I think where we getcaught up is how can both of those things be true and that we have up 100free will to act the way we’d want to but then God also has 100 percentsovereignty and control over that reality like those seem like conflictingthings I think we just need to be okay with like we literally do not have the software to comprehend that because weare living in a physical reality God operates in a spiritual reality yeah hewe live in the universe he created the universe how does that make sense butlike if just bringing it back to the book If I could use a story as an analogy are you a Star Wars guyabsolutely okay yeah like a lot of us are yeah we’re on the same page I’m a huge Star Wars guy and so you have StarWars you have Luke Skywalker right blows up the Death Star spoil alert sorry guys ifyou didn’t know that it’s been out for 40 something years Luke Skywalker blows up the Death Star rightbut Adam as a Star Wars guy let me ask you if you remember did he choose to do thatcan you like picture the five minutes before five minutes after like was blowing up the Death Star LukeSkywalker’s free will it was yeah definitely not from the physical nature because there’s no waythat a 90 degree turnover yeah this could have made it like that but yeah yeah I see your point yeah okay so hechose to do it right right like unmistakable Luke Skywalker wanted to do that he was saving the day and the goodguys win and you know the movie ends so we can agree that Luke Skywalker chose to do thatyes yeah he jumped in the X-Wing he got in he he uh flew if that’s the rightterminology sure yeah did the death death start yeah so we’re on the same page there yeah butcan it not also be argued that he had zero free will because as George Lucaswas sitting down at his desk writing that scene Luke Skywalker was going to do whatever George Lucas wanted him toso if we can agree that Luke Skywalker blew up the Death Star by his free willcan it not also be argued that he had no Free Will at all because George Lucaswrote that story it wasn’t Luke Skywalker it was George Lucas he was sitting at his desk years priorLuke Skywalker was not even a thing he was words on a page sothat’s kind of the dilemma here where like we just agreed that Luke Skywalker did it and he wanted to and yet GeorgeLucas as the author the creator of that story ordained it all he wrote it all soIt’s just tough because we are we are in that reality we are the Luke Skywalker in this analogy andit’s like if you look at it that way I know we kind of joked about the hoodie you’re wearing it’s like you can’t gointo your closet tomorrow morning and like pump fake God like red blue redblue like he he knows that you’re gonna do that you know that’s that’s funny but likeyou you can’t you can’t escape his his reality his you know hisSovereign will um but he wants us to love him and how doyou have love without free will otherwise we’d just be robots you know you can’t it’s not genuine if we don’thave the choice to say no yeah and that’s that’s a that’s a good segue into the book that that you wrotewhich is really like I said it was it was really powerfully written and you start the book by kind of introducingyour own story about how you’re reading a novel a science fiction novel um and uh and that it triggered you knowan emotional reaction in you because yeah the and I hope I’m not giving too much away it’s the beginning of the bookso I figure go for it uh I I give away chapter one for free on my website so yeah spoil away you’re good yeah so ifyou want to get the rest of the chapter yeah definitely go to go to the website you’ll you’ll get it there but um butyeah and you talk about the emotional reaction it gets is you know in the book The guy gets the girl and you know ityou know in your history with that you know you you had some heartbreak in the past with with that and I guess thatkind of gets into what what um um you know can you can you talk a little bit to that about howum how you can walk through those kinds of things too and and you know where where God is in in difficult timesbecause I know that that’s always a challenge you know when when people experience bad things you know one oftwo things can happen they can either lean into God as as as you know for for help or or they could push them awaythey can fight it and they can say why you know why is this happening why are bad things happening and yeah totallyit’s a question that we all Wrestle with whether you’re a believer in God or not like if God is real if what the Biblesays is true how can a good God let bad things happen what’s up with that andagain just this is the athlete coming out of me like if if I could use a sports analogy we actually do that allthe time with our personal trainers we literally hire people to hurt us you’resaying hey I’m gonna pay you a hundred dollars a session I’m gonna pay you a thousand dollars a month to hurt me onpurpose like hurt me in just the right ways with intent with a program so that I can bebetter on the back end of it that is what the Bible says God doesthrough the difficulties in our lives and it goes on to say how can we praise our Earthly fathers when theydiscipline us and it’s not like the six-year-old who’s getting a spanking from his dad like oh thank you Dad you’re you’re you’re so wise like thankyou for this like it doesn’t happen in the moment it happens down the road where you look back and like wow I am sograteful that my Earthly father disciplined me because now I’m not a knucklehead so theBible says how can we do that and then not receive the discipline of ourheavenly father who knows us even better than our Earthly father does who has a higher aimthan our Earthly father and so that doesn’t mean bad thingsdon’t hurt but there is a difference between pain and something that’s negativejust because it hurts doesn’t mean it’s bad and so yeah and we’ve all been throughdifficult things I would say again going back to thebegin with the end in mind and we have we have an author who knows the end fromthe beginning he has good plans for us he uses our pain to shape usto conform us to his character that changes things like if you’re goingthrough a difficult season so like oh man God’s forgotten me like how can hepossibly allow this to happen it goes from that to wow yeah this still hurts alot and I need friends and family and help to weather this storm but I kind ofget it thank you yeah thank you just in the same way likewhen we when we stroke the check for the personal trainer like hey here’s the thousand dollars for this month thankyou for hurting me on purpose I know this will work yeah yeah it’s the sameway just in a spiritual sense that’s a great analogy um you know with regard to a personal trainer as you know as as weknow those kinds of things will hurt and um and you know it’s been you hear frequently that God’s not going to putmore on us than we can’t handle and maybe it feels like it’s too much maybeit feels like it’s way too much and I know at times for a lot of us we we have that experience and it becomesoverwhelming but uh I think if we could lean into a higher power many you know recovery programs things that that youknow I’ve had in it gone through in the past with uh uh you know within recoveryhealing one of the first things we learn is to is to lean into a higher power andto trust that you know it’s not our control if it’s out of our control we have to give up and surrender that control to something elseand uh and so that’s powerful in God I I would wonder from your perspective or where you know where you’ve come fromwhen did you have did you have a first experience with God did you have something that transformed you andbrought you to him or or was it just something you grew up with how did that evolveyes and yes uh yes I grew up with him around him around the church butI’d also say that I wasn’t a Christian when that was going on like being achurch goer or being able to spew a couple of Bible verses that doesn’t make you a Believer it just means you haveit’s in your memory right so I grew up around the church I went to ChristianSchools growing up I don’t think I was a Christian until I was 25. I was baptizedat 13. so what’s up with those 12 years in the middle you know I’m going toChristian Schools we’re memorizing scripture we pray before dinner pray before I go to bedI thought I was a Christian but the way Jesus defines it is if you love me youwill keep my Commandments and as anyone listening to this canattest that does not mean that a Christian does that perfectly like nobody bats a thousand but you can lookat somebody’s life and see oh okay he or she is really like they’re they’redifferent they’re sold out on this Bible thing and even though they’re notperfect like I’ve seen a shift in them maybe they don’t drink as much or at allmaybe they don’t cuss anymore maybe they watch different movies listen todifferent music hang out with different people it’s like radical shift yeah I didn’t have my radical shift until I was25. and that came on the heels of my baseball career endingI was running a protein bar business while I played in the minor leagues so I was running like I had third partyco-packers and Amazon FBA and you know just and my laptop and hotspot I’mrunning this business that business went under and then I had a three-year relationship that ended ina pretty ugly way that was all within scope of one summer it’s like baseball business girl doneand so my radical transformation came when thatwas you know when that happened again going back to why would God let bad things happen sometimes is to wake youup like why would you know you hire a personal trainer why would he show up atyour house at 3 30 in the morning right and you know he’s got the alarm clock or the cowbell or whatever like wakes youup like hey wake up son this is this is your New Life Starts Now and so I wasjust so hurt I was so broken from those three huge losses for me because thatwas the future that I wanted I wanted to play in the big leagues whenever the big leagues ended I had my plan B rightthere with the business and then I had this girl that I was in love with it was like that was the life that I wanted andthen it was it went to zero basically overnight so because I was so crushed I was likeforced to my knees and truly surrendered said Lord this this is awful I have nostrength I have no energy I need you to carry me in this season and then I started reading more of his word andbeing energized strengthened encouraged I startedreading some truths that I had overlooked or maybe even never known and soyeah why would a good God let bad things happen maybe for our good to wait because he isour good you know like what happens if we go through this life we live 90 100 years make a couple million bucks have afamily that loves us if there isn’t a god then we fall asleep forever and don’tremember it like what an anti-climactic ending that sucks I want no part of thatbecause you could have you could have the best 100 years ever it still ends and then you don’t get to remember itthat like no thanks right so God and Idon’t believe I don’t believe that to be true like God is the ultimate goodso he might allow the baseball dream to end thousands of prayers Lord will yougive me this no I won’t ever yeah you will not become a big league pitcherwhy so that you can know me so that you can have the thing that’sactually good because you you want to get to the big leagues you want to make millions of dollars and youknow play in front of stadiums like it’s not really what you want you just want to be lovedyou want to be valued you want to be maybe have a purposehave a calling you think baseball will get that for you but it’s not it I give that to you I am what you’re seekingright so and that’s essentially the the book that I wrote from the perspective of storieslike the reason why we enjoy Saving Private Ryan or the Matrix or whatever it is is notlike it’s not because we like Keanu Reeves it’s because we want to know God we wantto have that ending that he’s written we want to have the paradise that we began in and none of us have enjoyed yetso yeah yeah and you mentioned that in the book that that usually stories start with the with the place in mind theperfect place in mind right and yeah that even starts as true in the Bible you know starts in the Garden of Edenand then it gets lost and then we spend the story trying to regain it in someway is that kind of the message you’re trying to convey to people that they’re that there’s always some kind ofnarrative that we’re living out in our lives that that there’s always something that uh that a a directional place thatwe’re going is that what it’s conveying yeah and I don’t want to give too much away because I know that you’re readingit I don’t know how far along you are in the book but in the last chapter which again you know there’s plenty of stuffwithin it uh in between but in the last chapter I talk about catharsis catharsisis the number one goal of any dramatic storytelling that is what the author ofthat novel screenplay whatever is setting out to provide it’s catharsis it’s thelike you’re walking to your car after the movie and it’s just that ah feelingit was like that that was everything I was looking for in order to have catharsis you need three things you needa desire you need a delay then ultimately you get the delivery you have to want something you have tonot get it and then you have to get it so basically what we’re feeling in this reality nowlike we all can agree life is not perfect it’s just it’s just not if if we everget filled up by something whether it’s uh something as simple as a night ofsleep we always need another one or the the warm meal you know you have you havethis amazing meal you will be hungry again so we’re just constantly replenishing replenishing replenishing so we’reliving in that delay period where we have this desire for the paradise and even if we go to Hawaii even if we go tothe Bahamas the vacation always ends too you go to Hawaii for seven days it endsthere’s not an eighth day right there’s certainly not an 800th day like it ends so I’ve always hated thatseventh day by the way that’s 100 the the best days of a vacation are like days two and three because like you’rekind of you’re settling in but also at the end of the trip is far enough away that you’re not really thinking aboutit’s like this is Paradise but then there’s a hole in the bottom of thatbucket like it just it goes away yeah that’s what I’m describing so we havethis uniform desire we want to stay in that paradise foreverwe don’t want the seven day vacation we want an existence of it soknowing that we have the desire and we actually don’t have that deliveryyet we’re just we’re sitting in that delay which gives you Reason for Hope it alsogives you Clarity on man yeah that’s why that’s why I don’t feel great all the time that’s why when somebody you knowpost a comment on social media that I don’t like it rubs me the wrong way because I know things aren’t as theyshould be so yeah that gives us perspective looking into the future okay there’ssomething better that awaits us and then also it helps us to understand our past like yeah that makes sense yeah we’renot there yet right we’re not there yet so for someone who is is experiencing that that trialyou know that they that maybe they maybe they had that paradise maybe they never had it in their life maybe they they’vealways struggled they’ve always experienced pain or hardship in some wayand they find that they’re blaming God or they’re blaming that in in their and andthere’s there’s a lot of fear there’s a lot of Torment in their life what would you say to someone like that to try tobring them to Greater peace yeah I would just I’d quote Jesus he said in this world you will have trouble but takeheart I have overcome the world so let’s say you’ve just been given theworst law imaginable like from the day that you were born just you’ve been in pain physical pain relational painwhatever it is just the worst there are a lot of things in scripturelike I think about The Sermon on the Mount where Jesus shares the the Beatitudes if anybody wants to read itit’s in Matthew chapter 5. that’s where it begins Matthew 5 6 and 7.so there are a lot of things that Jesus says that seem kind of backwards he’s like blessed are the meekblessed are the poor in spirit blessed are those who mournand you know it goes on and on and that word blessed you might hear that and you think it’s like oh they’re they’rehighly rewarded or something like oh they’re getting a blessing that is true butit’s also referring to literal happiness so it’d be like happy are those whomourn happy are the meek happy are the poor in spirit why because when you havethose negative things when you have those painful experiences you can actually see God and more importantlyyou see your need for God so if we’re comparing the person who’s had pain Perpetual pain their whole life versuslike the Richie Rich born with a silver spoon in their hand and you know justnever wanted for anything the person who’s never wanted for anything might have had a like an airquote better life less pain yeah that might cause that person to beblinded yeah they’re just so dang comfortable sitting in the hot tub of life that theynever begin with the end in mind they never wake up to their need for Godwhereas the person who’s in pain is it is abundantly clear God I need youthis is awful in fact I can’t wait for Paradise I can’t wait to get out of here and yesthere might be some good that comes to me on this Earth but I am ready for your Paradise what you lay out in your bookso yeah to the person who’s listening to this if you’re going through that pain and I don’t want toI don’t want it to sound like we’re insensitive to the pain pain hurts likeyeah that that is the case however you might be in an even betterspot than the person who never feels that because you are fully aliveso I hope everybody is internalizing what Bob’s saying there and and I know that for a lot of people who are goingthrough that trouble and and that trial or that pain it’s so overwhelming thatyou know and we’re so angry that how can we believe in a God and and I get thatthat can make us angry but but I would I would just say be open-minded to thiskind of thing because even in my experience I was I was angry at God when I um when I was struggling when I wasactive in my addiction when I was having anxiety when I was having fear but the reality was when when I entered intorecovery I had the similar experience where it was just I let go I was able to just saylook I I don’t have control over this anymore I don’t have control over these problems these issues how people areaffecting me and and and and and this addiction that I have and so I’m goingto let it go to God and in my higher power whatever that higher power is even if it’s justquestioning it and and starting to learn about it it’s a powerful way to start toget over or rise above that fear that you might have not get over it not get over the painbut start to maybe experience it in a different way and understand that it’s part of the human experience and it’sokay and that there are more miracles to come in this worldum so thank you for sharing that perspective Bob because I think that that was really important did you have anything to add to that uh well no thatwas well said I think you nailed it right there absolutely thank you yeah and I think uh um youknow so kind of with your with your spiritual health in check you you’ve youhave obviously your your spiritual health is is important to you you focus on that you have great great energy onthat how do you how do you stay mentally and physically healthy is there anything that you do there to kind of keepyourself mentally and physically healthy I I would say that just my experience asan athlete has impacted me in that way quite a bit I’m I’m a pretty disciplined person I’m a I’m a routine orientedperson wake up at the same time every day go to bed at the same time uh I turnoff my phone an hour before I go to bed like literally off not just like oh airplane mode listening to podcasts likeit is off off um I’m wearing the blue light glasses sothat I can fall asleep within five minutes like just trying to you know do whatever I can to take care of my bodyand then also as far as working out just because I’m a like I work at sales I’m adesk bound employee you know like I’m just I’m sitting all day I have a standing deskso I can bounce up and down but I’m not moving and we’re meant to move so just getting into the gym as a part of it andfrankly my workouts have absolutely changed I went from working out two three times a day for several hours toyou know sometimes it’s a 20 minute pick one body part barely sweat andyou’re out but I just know all right I’m sure I’m laughing at you certainly I’m not doinglike uh triathlons or anything like that but uh I just try to get the heart rate up yeah basically every day I’ll takeweekends off for the most part but you don’t have to do a lot you really don’t but it does need to beconsistent it becomes a problem if you don’t work out for a year and it’s like oh I want to get back in shape in 2024.it’s like no just do small things a lot and you won’t lose it yeah I I and Ithink you’re you’re absolutely right about that I I totally agree with the consistency part of it and that’s reallytrue for anything that you want to you want to do and I would I would even imagine the same is true for spiritualhealth staying consistent with those kinds of things because you know if it’s just if you’re just going to be frontloading or or maybe even uh you know a lot of prayers are going to be happening this weekend coming up at Super BowlSunday when we’re recording this so a lot of a lot of praying happening this week but uh um but yeah I think uh youknow anything consistency so so vital uh that’s true with uh anything spirituallymentally or physically well um yeah I think uh uh I I I I am so grateful forthe stories that you share I’m grateful for this book that you’re sharing which is our hearts desire and it’s availableon Amazon again and if people want to learn more about you Bob where can they where can they find you yeah so you canfind me on my website bobweekly.com you could also so I’d love to connect on social as well it’s just at Bob Wheatleymost active on Instagram and yeah love to hear from you thank you again forhaving me on this show it’s been awesome and yeah really appreciate you the fact that you’re reading the book not everybody not everybody does that butthat’s that’s awesome and I’m glad that you’re enjoying it for sure well it really was yeah well I wanted to createsomething as a because you might be listening to the shows like man this guy’s a real Jesus freak I wanted toconnect the person who might not be able to say that it’s like open to the thingsof God but like that that bridge has not been made yeah it’s like how can Iyou know do I really have to crack open the King James Bible to know God the answer is no what I believe is yourstories the your favorite stories actually reveal some of the desires of your heart and yeah so I’m grateful thatyou’re reading and glad that we can connect on that front I think we’re all story people this just you know adds an extra layerabsolutely yeah well that’s what’s so great about this book is that is that it it’s you know it is just a way toreconnect with God reconnect with a higher power and these are these discussions need to be had whether whether people take this in and andimmediately convert or or whether they look into something spiritual or they’re looking to some kind of relationshipit’s it’s important that we that we question these things because there’s regardless of the spiritual nature of itthere are so many unknowns in this world and uncertainty leads to fear and uh andand for us to rise above it we need to lean into something that is a power greater than ourselves that is going tohelp us bring us to uh you know bring us closer to what we need to be as humansand as Spiritual Beings so thank you for bringing that message here and ensuringthat with us Bob and uh and if you yeah if you want to check out Bob check out Bob wheatley.com find them on socialsand uh thank you again for being here Bob I appreciate it absolutely thanks for having me we’ll see you we’ll seeyou next time everybody thanks hey everyone Thanks for tuning in to the flow over fear podcast if you’d like tolearn more about getting into flow and learn the foundations of flow I have a free video series on my website atwww.adamcliffordill.com called the foundations of flow feel free to go there and download it and start yourjourney to Rising above fear and achieving greater flow in your life if you like this episode and I’m guessingyou did if you stuck around for this long then please do me a favor and hit the Subscribe button and you willreceive notifications when I have new interviews new Recaps and new trainings that pop up on YouTube thanks again forjoining us 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