Feel Good Fatherhood and Personal Branding With Jay Twining

Jay Twining: Feel Good Fatherhood and Personal Branding – YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3ipKVUcCJM

Transcript:
(00:00) as we’re thinking about flow over fear and we’re thinking about this concept of fear anxiety putting yourself out there personal branding fatherhood all of it is really related to this idea that you have something that you want to be in the world you know I say things like it’s your personal brand is it’s your legacy but for fatherhood your your family your children they’re your legacy to the world and all of it has to come has to deal with the fact that we have to get out in front of people the number
(00:28) one fear so check this out check this out right if you were to think speaking in front of people getting eaten by a shark or getting bird alive which one do you think people were more afraid of hello everyone and welcome to the flow over fear podcast where it is our mission to help you to rise above fear and realize your ultimate potential in leadership and life I’m your host Adam Hill and it is my goal to share with you the human side of high performance my guests share their experience with fear anxiety struggle Challenge and most
(01:02) importantly despite all of it how they Rose above it to achieve incredible results so if you’re ready to rise up let’s get started hey everyone welcome to flow over fear I’m glad you’re joining us today I’m excited for our guest he is Jay Twining and we’re going to talk about fatherhood today and this is an important topic and it’s important for any any parent really whether you’re a mother father we want to talk about Parenthood and Jay is the host of the feel good fatherhood podcast and which
(01:36) is a conversation interview view format with fathers and people who serve as fathers talking about their personal development values and perspective on fatherhood and Jay’s also a resident personal brand strategist with brand builders group the leading personal brand strategy firm where he has worked with New York Times best-selling authors top one percent real estate firms 10 figure entrepreneurs elected State officials and world-renowned speakers to develop their personal Brands and marketing strategies that result in
(02:06) bigger incomes bigger revenue streams for for those folks and Jay I have to start by thanking you by the way for helping me to start this podcast because you’re instrumental in in helping me to learn about that man I appreciate that I think as we’re thinking about flow over fear and we’re thinking about this concept of fear anxiety putting yourself out there personal branding fatherhood all of it is really related to this idea that you have something that you want to be in the world you know I say things
(02:36) like it’s your personal brand is it’s your legacy but for fatherhood your your family your children they’re your legacy to the world and all of it has to come has to deal with the fact that we have to get out in front of people the number one fear so check this out check this out right if you were to think speaking in front of people getting eaten by a shark or getting burned alive which one do you think people were more afraid of oh man well having been a swimmer in a past life yeah it’s like sharks were always my
(03:04) biggest fear so check it out so sharks is number eight okay burned alive is number three and speaking in front of people that’s number one that’s the number one fear people have wow and so when we’re kind of in this world of you know helping you and and helping anybody else that wants to have a podcast uh working in this world where we have a value proposition we have some sort of message that we want to put out into the world like kind of that first step you have everybody has to go through is just that fear and
(03:33) anxiety of oh man there’s so much imposter syndrome like am I good enough should I be doing this is my is my value and voice worthwhile and um you know and for you uh it was just it was an easy fit it was like yes you got something to talk about and uh and so we’re just kind of working through uh the steps in the mechanics to to get the message out there and just help people that’s really what it’s all about it’s just about helping people yeah yeah well now I think it’s important can you I think the
(04:00) next question is can you help me with getting over my fear of sharks then that’s the biggest no I’m kidding but there’s oh there’s a such an interesting I forget it was it was like I think it was like Andrew huberman brought in David Goggins into the into his lab and put him in the VR helmet with swimming with the sharks and like Goggins was just like completely like no change in heart rate no change in nothing and then Hebrew was like you’re the only person that like has no reaction to sharks and
(04:30) he’s kind of like that’s not real it’s VR like that’s what everybody else but but this is this is what’s fantastic about this story right especially when it comes to fear what it really shows is it fears in here anybody and so for those that are listening I pointed to my head all your fear it’s in your it’s in your head it danger occurs in your heart and your body like if you’re in danger your body has a reaction and that’s your adrenaline rush to either fight or flight but fear that’s just it’s all in
(04:55) your head it’s it’s not real and so I think that that one story like Goggins is a he’s a badass right so he’s he’s like you know he’s a champion of everything he’s doing um and he’s a great model and not everybody can do that uh but that concept of getting aligned and understanding what your emotions are and where you’re coming from I mean for you with the sharks because you are actually in the water it makes sense that you were like you’re actually responding to a danger and so I
(05:27) would say don’t get over it pay attention to it because sure like it’s real you know I have a I personally have a fear of water um because twice in my life um I almost drowned and so I have a lot of now I’m a very strong swimmer uh let me qualify that because if I think when I think a very strong swimmer I think of somebody that can go like in the currents of the ocean so I’m not that strong but I’m a competent swimmer I can jump into a pool be fine I can jump into the ocean and be fine um but I think of like so I I always
(05:58) every time I get to the water every time I’m about to jump in I like I’m stopped it’s like lead feet I cannot move yeah it’s like yeah like I’m okay I’m doing this to myself again it’s it’s constant just constant like running to that face running that doorway of fear and just saying all right well here’s this door that’s in front of me there’s a doorknob on it I know exactly what I have to do to get through this door to the other side of whatever it is that I want to do I just
(06:26) got to overcome this thing over again my brain overcome my mind overcome the fear that’s in my head and I can just open that door even though it is a reaction to Danger open that door and just jump in and and you know usually have fun with whoever’s in the pool right well that that’s an interesting concept because yeah I mean touching on that I’d like to dig in a little bit because you know the the idea of standing at the shoreline or standing at the edge of the pool and having that initial fear set is
(06:52) you know it’s obviously something we want to you want to rise above and you figure out the tools to do that but do does it does it go away does immersion I mean literally and figuratively help with that or or do do you have to always do that practice I uh a master of this and I learned this this principle from from an old Mentor in landmark forum and so this was kind of a personal development kind of area and I was at a conference and he said the difference between a regular person and a master is that the master has just
(07:28) changed their response time they’ve just shortened the response time and so I don’t I I don’t I would have to jump into and I’m not a neuroscientist I’d have to jump into a lot more knowledge about can fears actually get overcome but I do know that from neuroplasticity that when you anything you experience in your brain and you can either use neural plasticity or epigenetics or whatever it’s really just saying that like you kind of learn and remember from experiences I don’t think your brain ever really forgets it
(07:56) yeah so yeah I mean I think that that fear for me is kind of always going to be there but my goal is that short to shorten that time to then to one day I know one day I’m just gonna walk up to the pool and just jump right in and every once in a while it does happen but it’ll be every time and I’ll just get into the pool whenever I want to yeah yeah and I I I can definitely resonate with that I mean myself having having a fear of I you mentioned having fear of water I never had in your drowning experiences
(08:27) but but I did have a fear of Open Water Swimming like like getting way out and swimming kind of more of the agoraphobia like just the fear of the Open Spaces kind of thing just being stuck um but uh uh and that stays with me like I haven’t been I when I was doing it frequently it would be like yeah that that time frame was shortened you’re right but now that I’ve been out of the Open Water if you put me in front of like the ocean right now and told me to swim out to the buoy it’d probably scare
(08:54) me yeah so I could see that I could definitely resonate with that so yeah there’s there’s definitely a handful of situations in my life where I don’t know if this will change so for instance um I’ve only been skydiving once and it was a tandem skydive and it was something that I wanted to do for my entire life and I absolutely love that I’ve done it and it’s I think it’s like my oldest I actually have a YouTube video I it was one of those ones where you they give you the video and so yeah
(09:24) they sent me the video and I uploaded it to YouTube so that it was kind of in perpetuity there um and it was this was years ago and now it’s like whenever I get close to the edge of a building like I have vertigo oh yeah and that one is a physical reaction but I think that for me jumping out of the the plane in the skydiving thing and there’s like there’s a handful of why it was so crazy for me it’s a it’s a tangible danger situation because when we were preparing they didn’t tell me certain details about how we were going
(09:55) to follow like jump out of the plane and so what ended up happening was was that we were there and ready and so part of it is there’s that like oh the doors open now and that’s open air and we’re just gonna free fall so that was already kind of an issue but the next step is and with the tandem is that like they just walk you out like there’s nothing you can really do they’re like you’re going out right and they didn’t prepare me for one detail which like when I think back and I’m like wow
(10:24) I can’t believe they did it they did this uh at this place where I went we were head first and so they said all right you’re going out so put your head back like do this hold on to your parachute like put your head back and do that and then so I was like okay like I was like this is kind of weird I don’t know what’s going on and then when we went out I was face down and like I blacked out for like a second it was just so like oh my goodness what’s going on um and it was like I think that was the
(10:55) furthest outside of just real comfort zone that I’ve ever been in that was probably the probably one of the scariest moments of my life just just that and only in that second like it was only in that that moment now I wasn’t all that comfortable and I like I enjoyed it I loved it I had a great adrenaline rush like you know like all the regular stuff that happens when you do extreme sports um and I love that I did it I don’t know if I want to do it again sure um but I you know I think what’s great about the memory is that
(11:32) we can always choose how we respond to these things and make us afraid and when I whenever I get back to that edge what I think about is when what I remind myself Is that ah but uh jumping out of the plane so going skydiving that was a that was a bucket list thing that was a this is something I want to do in my life yeah you know like bungee jumping is not something I don’t want to do bungee jumping I have no interest but Jumping On a Plane absolutely I wanted to do it um the other big one that I haven’t done
(11:59) is ice climbing like I love climbing I love I love uh bouldering um I’ve done a couple multi-tears it’s something I enjoy I’d really like to go ice climbing in my life and so whenever I have that vertigo I just try and remind myself like hey I have this vertigo because I pushed myself to an edge and I found this new Edge and um part of part of my acceptance of that is that when I was explaining my experience to some family members they were just kind of like oh you know what like you actually have a really good
(12:30) survival Instinct so you should be really happy about that oh I was like oh that’s good right that’s good I like that Framing and so I think you know when we’re thinking about the fear and think about all these kind of things like it’s good to it’s good to acknowledge this thing happened and and I’m sensitive because you know you know I’ve got daughters and I think there are certain situations in in everybody’s life where you’re having a fear or a dangerous reaction and it’s very difficult to
(13:00) frame it positively but I just firmly believe in my heart that like everything that’s happened in your life has led you to who you are today and like and and really like the the sum total of your confidence your ability to overcome fear create new experiences to connect with other people is based on everything that’s happened like everything it’s not healthy to live there but it’s healthy to be grateful for it like I’m grateful for that happening because because of that thing happening I’m now who I am today and I can now
(13:32) share this story with you yeah well I’m glad well I’m glad you did because I never plan on skydiving and so just at least living vicariously through you is is good enough for me so I’m grateful that you shared that that with us because some fears it’s like yeah I’m not quite I’m not quite wanting to rise above that fear and just so you know so that several Brothers in this I’m a land creature as well I don’t want to be an open ocean like I have no I have no desire for that whatsoever um I also
(14:00) have this thing of sharks so yeah and when we combine that with the water thing it’s like okay yeah keep me keep me on a mountain or something like that I’m fine right give me a force and I’m and I’m happy definitely um well yeah and you’d mentioned you know you have you have daughters you know and and we were talking about kind of these acute fears of like oh okay a fear of falling out of a plane you know that that’s obviously fear inducing but there’s a fear we have as as fathers and
(14:27) you know you’re you’re obviously expert on this you you’ve you’re doing uh you know you’re doing a podcast on on fatherhood feel good fatherhood and you are uh you know you have have some expertise here can you kind of uh share a little bit about you know what you know how fears manifest manifest as a parent and how we can I guess you know rise above those and be better parents maybe that’s a fully loaded question but yeah I’d love to hear your perspective on it there’s a there’s a
(14:54) lot so yeah and I’m really happy that you brought this up so I think I think that we’ll just kind of go through the age of of what are just common fears and I think it’s funny because I think here’s the other here’s the other element is that most the time as fathers we’re younger you know 10 years ago me very different person uh in in terms of calmness Temperance attitude also gumption and gung-ho and energy right so I think that a lot of new fathers are joining the arena of fatherhood under
(15:33) this weird idea that nothing’s really going to change and almost and most fathers when if they’re kind of thinking about it and they’re present they have a moment where the switch is flipped where the light has turned on that you could say the the blood because the blood is going to the brain to the right spot of like oh that thing in there is um that’s gonna change my life um I think that the first fear and this is a very Primal Fear to just kind of understand and be aware of as a father is that
(16:11) we don’t know that it’s our kid that’s like and I think just being aware of this as a concept because it’s a very deep one I didn’t have it with my first child but I had a I had a definite inner monologue of like is this my kid like is my wife is now pregnant again did this come from me and um I don’t have any there’s there’s no uh there’s no situation and that’s not something like that’s not something like some people deal with infidelity that doesn’t happen for us
(16:44) but I like and I was weird like it was weird for me that this came up and I I even talked I was like I have this is irrational because I know like we know the date it happened like we were intentional about it we like we like everything so it’s like and everything lined up like yep that was a date this is all happened but there was definitely a a I can’t see the kid I don’t know if it’s mine and I don’t know what to do about that and so I think that’s something to be aware of of if you’re
(17:12) feeling that I really like Winston Churchill when it comes to negative emotion because he just basically says like look if you’re in a swamp keep going because you’ll you’ll you’ll exit the swamp so acknowledging the fact that you have this fear have these negative thoughts I wouldn’t don’t ruminate at them and don’t hang out there but maybe take out a journal write it out I think right just write down some jot down some thoughts talk to talk to a trusters like if you got a you know uh
(17:39) there’s another healthy man in your life that you can have a conversation with have that conversation if you have that kind of relationship with your wife have that conversation with your with your wife um I guess the other permutations with your spouse [Music] sure as soon as it goes but there there’s a if you Shine the Light on the thing that you’re afraid of most the time it just diminishes I’m not a big fan of it the movie it but the most recent edition of it and this is going to be a total spoiler so hey if
(18:15) if you’re if you haven’t seen it and you want to do it pause this go watch it then come back for the rest of it yeah so all of my it fan club uh uh uh listeners out there that I know there’s a lot of you please turn off this yeah segment so yeah so at the very end of the new run so it is a creature it’s an alien creature that effectively kind of feeds on fear it creates fear and then it kind of feeds it and as that fear increases you know a phenomena that’s described at least in that show and and kind of also
(18:53) um I would say anecdotally described as well is that things that you’re afraid of become bigger and I think it’s a function of uh as human beings we are Focus machines yeah like we are like super honed in I’m like that thing’s dangerous I gotta like if I take my eye off to think that’s dangerous it’s gonna get me you know like creatures in the dark you know wolves in the forest you know bears in the mountains Etc right the whole like the whole gamut of that kind of stuff if I if I don’t look at the dangerous thing
(19:20) it’s gonna get me yeah um and so they play on that in the movie and the way that they resolve it and it’s so funny because the whole the whole sequence of the of the part two is that they have this ritual that they can do to make it go away right it doesn’t work uh you know spoiler alert doesn’t work but the way they defeat it is they literally they literally think it’s smaller like they literally overcome the fear in their head they overcome the fact that like it is uh it is too big it’s it like by the
(19:50) time they get to this point it’s monstrous like it’s like it’s it’s like it’s uh like not quite Kaiju like Godzilla but like it’s just monstrous thing it’s very scary it’s it’s gross and scary looking and they just kind of shrink shrink shrink shrink shrink yeah and then they defeat it and it’s just like ah you know um it’s this really great I think analogy for um putting shining the light on it so if you have this fear of I don’t know if the kid is mine um uh first check-in to see if it’s real
(20:21) like I and I would say this that like everybody is where they are so if you’re in a relationship where you might not know have the conversation right we don’t need another moris or whatever those daytime things are like if you don’t need any more of those conversations like like legit if it’s an issue like bring it up and talk like that’s it’s one of the things that differentiates us from every other mammal out there is our ability to communicate have abstract thoughts and you need to be able to communicate this
(20:49) effectively but if you’re in a solid relationship and you’re having this just check into like hey this is irrational it’s in my head um talk about it and it might go away so that I think that’s the first one the next one is imposter syndrome so the next big one that father All fathers almost go through this is that like am I good enough am I going to be good enough can I take care of it I have concerns so again uh right now I just had a newborn so uh four months old and I had major major major provider
(21:21) fears last year so once like it was right around so it was summer October so two three months so pregnancy is very visible sure right she’s winding down preparing for like the Long Haul to to delivery uh for me like I had these major pressures of oh my goodness I might make enough money is the house ready is that uh you know just going like that so I think that these that that overwhelmed that fear that anxiety there again that’s just another thing to check in um the great thing is is that uh we’ve been having kids for forever
(22:03) there’s never a right time there’s never a right amount of money there’s never a red amount of anything you just have a kid yeah that’s it yeah yeah yeah and I’ve noticed too that I mean like even even as they get older those fears don’t go away I mean it’s just like I I mean I still have that provider fear it’s like man I have two teenagers now and they’re demanding money and it’s like I don’t know why I can support them if if I’m you know not making what we’re making so
(22:25) yeah it’s tough yeah big part of here is that again we get to choose what we do with it and there’s some solutions there’s some there’s some perspective so I’ll say perspective Solutions not not true because there’s no real you don’t solve fear right like you’re solving emotion uh there’s some perspectives to think about when we when we hit these these points of fear and anxiety so that’s the provider one that’s that’s kind of a real one that’s another one
(22:48) um the next one is am I gonna hurt it and so um it’s like babies are babies are tougher than we think but they’re not like they’re not they’re not toys right and so um it’s never like I don’t really know this but like when I when I hold like when I held my first there was definitely a like uh am I am I doing this right like I felt like a kid again like I felt like a kid holding like picking up a dog or a cat for the first time just like am I doing this right you know yeah so that’s just a
(23:19) matter of and I think that one is really solved by just kind of taking a look at some videos and learning how to hold a kid how to change a diaper how to how to swaddle effectively because everything else is gonna naturally take care of itself and there’s some really great tools about doing that so there’s the am I gonna hurt it kind of thing so um the only real thing to say here is that as a father you create Heat and so as a as your body your body will create and generate heat and if you’re holding your kid
(23:54) and you sort of get like antsy and the kids kind of getting antsy it’s a heat thing it could be a heat thing oh well mum’s body will regulate the temperature so mom’s body will cool down the baby and heat up the baby and so she’s got another tool but you you’ve got the heat tool right so you you’ve got that tool as a father and then mom’s got a different tool and so okay that’s something to just kind of again it’s really just get in tune like hang out like what’s your body doing yeah so what I’m hearing
(24:28) there is if the baby’s getting antsy give it to Mom right sometimes sometimes right like at that age it’s either it’s going to be heat uh more likely it’s going to be I’m hungry or it’s going to be I need to sleep yeah so right like pretty much at the young age that’s what it’s going to be uh because once they get once they get older um you know they can self-regulate and do all that kind of stuff so sure I forget the age there there’s a specific age where they can do their own
(24:52) temperature regulation but I forget I forget that um so then and then this is so this is all like the first couple of months and then anything else any other fear that happened at this stage is legit imposter syndrome it’s um and imposter syndrome is it’s like my guilty pleasure because um because here’s here’s the reality of imposter syndrome right so imposter syndrome is you’re in a new situation you don’t quite know whether you can do it right like and you’re and you’re just
(25:22) kind of like oh do I really belong here well guess what it’s a new situation you’ve you’ve never done it before you probably don’t know what you’re doing you’re just gonna have to figure it out right right there’s no amount of training there’s no outside of learning some of the the what I would call the hot the hard skills or the soft skills of being a father like communication techniques swaddling you know what music to listen to like manners and stuff like that like there’s nothing everything else is
(25:50) experiential it’s it’s one of those beautiful human experiences both for mom and dad that you can’t there’s no video you can watch to teach you it’s it’s a it is a long-term brand new lifelong career and you will be executing on it for the rest of your life a lot of times at uh um yeah in the moment without you know a lot of forth knowledge yeah that’s right so you have two kids they’re they’re you know they have a pretty big distance apart between them how’s the dynamic with that how you
(26:24) know is that is that a manageable Dynamic is there any kind of fears or anything else that are coming up in that Dynamic that you have to work with I don’t uh oh this is good so I was thinking the the only fear I had was sort of like the a much later fear for father it is like a fear for somebody I was I did have some reservation on am I thrusting my eldest daughter into uh caregiver role too early you know have I have I created a situation where she’s losing out a little bit on her teenage years or her whatever right
(27:07) because right by the time that she can be a babysitter she’ll have a sibling that she can babysit so right so and then I was like well maybe but another thing that um and this one is really Central to feel good fatherhood it’s a stoic principle and it’s am I having a part of it is a one expression is am I concerned or am I responsible um and so definitely concern but certainly not responsible uh but another way to say it is just like the decisions that my daughter makes in her life are all her own and I know I know there’s going to be
(27:52) some of your listeners are not happier than I said that right and decisions that I make are all my own and and here’s the one that you know if they cancel or hating maybe we’re doing something well but it’s her decisions don’t reflect on me and my decisions don’t reflect on her and right now there’s just another bundle of joy there’s just another thing to love that wants to love right there’s another another creature that is deserving of love and respect wants some dignity with
(28:21) us becoming a Twining we’re getting like a I say we’re getting another at-bat yeah we’re doing it again which is which is fun and and we’re very different people than even 10 years ago and so it’s like all of you know and it’s it’s weird because it is this juxtaposed idea where yes everything that happens in your past is also also creates who you are today but it’s the decisions you make in the moment that really determine like what where who you are today and and what your life is going to look like tomorrow
(28:52) yeah so for her as far as Dynamics sure there’s like she has much more responsibility she’s way more independent uh she has her own set of chores she’s able to help out like there’s a lot of like um there’s a lot we have a we effectively have another we have a much more responsible helper in the house whereas if we had two kids that were two or three years apart that wouldn’t really exist um uh but I think every every family is going to have to navigate whichever Dynamics they’re gonna create every
(29:27) father is going to have to deal with whatever it is that they’re creating because you do create and influence your environment and so what I was saying earlier like this isn’t a gaslighting moment like it’s not like she’s responsible for everything happens in her life that’s not true um I can still create healthy or unhealthy environments but the dynamic at play is really for for this age Gap is um the first big Dynamic is like I signed up for another 20 years right there’s that piece uh that’s one thing
(29:56) that I think about a lot and yeah you know I’m I’m in my low 40s so I’m looking at you know when she’s 18 like graduating high school potentially going to college whichever past she chooses uh I’m Gonna Be My I might be 60. right so that has that certainly has an impact uh but it has certainly galvanized some really good habits in me of the um I have certain desires that I want like I would like to dance with them both at their wedding so if I calculated my head average age average age that
(30:29) women get married today is low 30s okay so that puts me at 70. so and I want to be mobile so part of that vision is not wheelchair bound or in you know infirm or anything like that so it’s like okay so that really for me that galvanized uh hmm was there a fear I don’t think I was afraid it was more of a I think it was a conversation I had with myself it was like hey dude like you want to be there yeah you’re gonna have to you’re gonna have to kind of plan for longevity a little bit better we already have a great lifestyle and
(31:04) lots of good food and all like you know we have good Creature Comforts and we’re very healthy sure but there’s certainly uh this can be optimized I can further optimize this this equation I can get better and and like and I think of um there’s only one time in my life where my body has been better than it is right now and that was I was practicing Aikido when I was in high school and like I did I played hockey all growing up I played football like I did tons of stuff but when I was doing Aikido I was the most
(31:35) ripped it was it was nuts and um um and I’m I’m probably a couple months from joining the next I I have to find um it’s at the school I have to find a dojo yeah that’s doing it but the really reputable one here the master retired so I think the community kind of went its own way um but we’re moving soon so there’s another there’s another at-bat so to speak to find this next Dojo uh but I think you know I definitely think of this is bringing up something really good that I think that fathers do need
(32:06) to reconcile is I do know that there’s going to be some point where I’m gonna die yeah and and have I set up my family to to thrive is my wife gonna be okay like am I going to outlive my wife that’s something I think about sometimes um odds are no so like odds are no and I think about oh man and it’s it’s like it’s weird here because I’m kind of like oh I I don’t want her to go through that pain yeah and like part of it is just like completely like mine stupid stuff like I have zero
(32:39) control I almost I basically have zero control over that because I’m not suicidal I don’t have any of those depression issues so you know I’m going until like God’s Gonna Take Me Away one day yeah that’s that’s it you know so I’m going until that happens and then um you know but I do think you know I think about now that I’m my age it’s like my parents are getting older and like ah I’ve already lost my dad I didn’t really have a relationship with my biological father
(33:08) um and I think you know if I were to really think about this one of my big drivers for feel good father and the the brand that I’m building the path that I’m on is that like not having relationship with my biological father he wasn’t really a healthy person so that wouldn’t have worked very well yeah but we had zero relationship and so the story is the year that my daughter was born was the year that he died oh wow so she was born and then my sister and I were trying to contact him because we had been estranged for time
(33:44) 15 years at that stage and there was no desire for a relationship it was more of just a oh I kind of you know hey you know are you alive good I’m alive I have this other thing she’s alive I just want to let you I was kind of more like a hey I just want you to know this is happening kind of thing you know right and um there may have been I probably if I if I it’d be unhealthy me to admit that I didn’t want the relationship but I was comfortable with either outcome it was kind of like 100 committed to finding zero
(34:14) expectation of results um but uh for some reason didn’t want to be found and we couldn’t find them we uh we pursued a private detective like just nothing um and then later on like basically over Christmas Vacation found out that he had died like a month or two before and uh it’s what was interesting to me here was what it brought up was was this real desire to not create that like I I try and live much more and I think it’s way healthier to have things that you’re running towards to have values that you’re living into
(34:56) they can be informed by things you didn’t you don’t want and I think at that stage part of my unhealthiness in those early years was me running away from things I didn’t want I ran away from not wanting to be there as opposed to running towards I want to be present I see that’s a that’s a thing that comes up a lot yeah that that that what are you doing are you running away from something you’re running towards something and I I think if if any of us if any of the people listening can
(35:23) actually listen to that Dynamic and in anything they’re doing in their life whether it be parenting or or life or work or relationships you know that’s that’s important um and and so that’s that’s valuable nugget and one thing I’d like to dig into a little bit is you know the relationship that you had with your father or or you know the the um the dynamic ad with your your father your biological father um and you know a lot of people there’s two directions people seem to go when that happens either they follow suit and
(35:55) they kind of emulate you know their father but you took that different path of not wanting to be that leaning really really hard into purposeful fatherhood what was the difference there that that like made you want to lean into that instead of the alternate was it just your values or how did that look there’s a podcaster I very much respect and he talked about how big pieces of his childhood which were he thought were very hard for him uh became the strength later on I was very young when I realized there
(36:35) were a lot of things I didn’t want in my life now I love my stepfather and and he knows this so I’m only speaking truth there were some mannerisms and things that that he was as a person his control of his emotions who he showed up as that I did not want he was like I don’t want that I don’t want to be that person and so the rebellious angsty angry youngjae right like that kid um he rebelled against his life and said these are the people you don’t want to be like yeah and so a big part of who I
(37:16) am today is just identifying people like I don’t want to be like you I don’t even be like you I don’t like what you’re doing and just out out out pointing fingers like so low responsibility for my life right and then it was right around when I went to college that I just started really taking much more ownership of who I was I went to and this kind of really this is really where I started um this path towards technically being comfortable around kids so I worked at a summer camp I ended up going to a summer camp it was
(37:53) uh the company’s called learning forums but it’s called super camp don’t worry make fun of it in the comments guys I know you want to make fun of it super camp uh fantastic personal development like really my first taste into personal development and um and academic skills academic leadership skills wrote courses the whole things and so I went as a I went as a student the first time through and I ended up sticking around and it became basically my summer job where I just worked at this camp taking kids
(38:24) through ropes courses and and stuff like that and it kind of created this like comfortability around certain age groups so for instance um I’m not the biggest fan of elementary school kids it’s not really my comfort level it’s there’s just a um I’m a six one 190 to 200 pounds depending on how much I’m working out in my diet um wherever I am in the past couple of years like I’m a big tall guy with with that’s kind of intense looking if you’re listening to the podcast I’m kind of a
(38:58) little bit intense looking and a little bit intimidating to kids and um and so like if you’re like if you think about you know you’re two feet tall and there’s a six foot tall guy you know a lot of the kids just didn’t I didn’t have the mannerisms or the face or the um emotional state of being the jump the jungle gym kid yeah there’s some some guys are naturally a little bit more jungle Jimmy and the kids climb on them and they have fun and there’s that physical that physical element I just didn’t have that
(39:27) it wasn’t really you know I’m a video game and bookie guy so it’s a big video gaming bookie guy um and uh and so kind of and and being aware of that allowed me to say oh well for these years at the summer camp I’m going to work with middle school and high school kids and that was kind of like really my sweet spot like I was like oh this I get it there’s some maturity um I tend to not like light conversations I don’t really go shallow I like deeper deeper Explorations and this kind of stuff
(39:58) um so that that really worked well for me but it made me comfortable in the environment made me comfortable talking with parents made me comfortable talking with kids and I it was weird is that I forgot about it I so I ended up you know I graduated college didn’t really need that anymore it was in the Working World and um so another detail that we’ll we’ll connect here in a minute is that I was really young I always want to be a video game person I always wanted to make video games didn’t really have any
(40:24) understanding of what it was and I had kind of given up because I went to school for uh programming so software engineering and I just it’s not very good at it just not very good at writing code uh it just was never my strength and um and so I just kind of wrote it off I was like okay well this is I I think even at the time it was like being very comfortable writing code and um it was either writing code or uh project management I didn’t even know about project management at the time um those were kind of that was the path
(40:53) and so I thought like oh you have to learn how to write code to make a game like you have to uh so I went to school and I learned you know I did pascals he and C plus in high school did a lot of C plus assembly in college they have some good Frameworks I kind of understand some of the lower level easy logic like all the kids you know all the kids today they’re just kind of like whatever dude yeah oh I I got a lot of C plus pluses in college in high school too so I know I know all about that yeah so I do that
(41:23) kind of stuff and I kind of wrote it off because I just realized like I just kind of had this the sense of oh I I don’t want to beat my face against the wall here like this is just not a skill I’m not developing a competency here I’m really right I’m trying to fill a weakness instead of pursuing something I’m good at um and so it wasn’t until much later that uh it would have been so where I I grew up in Detroit so I was uh I was in the suburbs of Detroit and I played a pen and paper game called riffs from
(41:56) Palladium books I mean since I was in grade school like probably third fourth and fifth year uh I had no idea they were 20 minutes down the street and so in like it was uh I think it’s 2006 um I have trouble finding the specific dates but in 2006 they had their first open house and I went and then I met the Creator and his name his name is Kevin uh sembeda and I was and for you know how every once in a while you’ll meet somebody and like I don’t I didn’t even mean to yeah he just he just like he just kind of
(42:33) looked at me and he was like what do you want to do with your life like just kind of the serendipitous moment and then out of my mouth came I want to make video games and then all and then all the BS excuses came out you know right like you can’t do it right yeah yeah I can’t do it I’m not good at this thing I’m not good at that and he just kind of looked at me and he just said um he said I was your age when I founded this there’s nothing stopping you and I was like oh wow I kid you not like three
(43:04) months later I was making games that’s incredible three months later huh so wow wow so did you did you get a job with him or a different company or where a different company so uh I ended up moving away from Detroit I um you know the company was called vicarious Visions uh they’re a division they’re uh technically that right now as of this recording they are blizzard North uh they were before that part of Activision uh so there’s this nice genealogy of that yeah if you care if you’re in that space
(43:33) um but I mean I’ve made three um Marvel games these are Marvel posters behind me so if you’re listening uh check out check out uh flow over fear on YouTube and you know I’ve got uh this blue one here is the Rebellion side because I made Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 which is the Civil War version and this is signed by uh Stan Lee right there oh wow that’s cool um only ones in existence um so I’m very I’m proud of these absolutely yeah yeah kind of started this nice this really nice decade-long
(44:04) Journey where um a lot of my driving force at that time was um was literally uh kind of full full Gusto full um full eh what’s the worst that can happen right going through that and um definitely took my licks and and took took a a lot of stuff happened in that time period um would not trade it for any anything uh despite all the hurt and the pain um but also beautiful memories and uh I always say it’s like I always say because that one situation with Kevin I was like look if you’ve got a dream and there’s a
(44:50) stupid reason why you’re not pursuing your dream because there’s valid reasons and you might think they’re valid yeah um that was air quotes for for you listeners um just make sure it’s not not you being afraid yeah because life happens on the other side of that door and so when I was at the summer camps and I was teaching these kids you know and we’re putting them in their harnesses and putting them on the belay lines and they’re climbing 30 feet up and they’re on a little six inch
(45:21) platform and we’re saying jump like that’s danger and that’s fear and we’re pushing them to their Edge yeah and if there’s something that you have an opportunity to or something that you want to do and it’s this fear this irrational fear that’s not real that’s stopping you from doing that um you’re sacrificing you’re effectively sacrificing your long-term you’re sacrificing the potential of failing or the potential of succeeding for nothing and so you’re giving up what could be
(45:55) the greatest gift that you have to give yeah and uh that’s yeah well that that just like I don’t that’s why I feel good fatherhood exists because like I don’t want that to happen I don’t want any person if everybody was activated if everybody was was in their genius this is why I’m doing personal branding it’s it’s why I did video games it’s why I have feel good fatherhood you gotta if you’re living in what you’re great at and you’re passionate about it that’s
(46:23) when magic happens yeah if you’re reasonable at something but you do it for a very long time that’s when magic happens when you combine the two where you’re like you’re good at it and you’re passionate about it and you’re uniquely talented to do it and you do it for a long time you change the world yeah that’s so true yeah because yeah that consistency is a key part of it and that that Perfect Blend that Venn diagram of finding you know your talents what you’re good at what you’re you know adding value to the
(46:52) world and doing it consistently that’s the Unstoppable flywheel one yeah that’s amazing and um and and yeah you’re so right that there’s two there’s two really ways that we experience fear fear and danger which evolutionary is speaking I mean that’s I mean hundreds of thousands of years that’s the way we experienced it most of the time was like you know oh there’s a freaking saber-toothed tiger on the corner I don’t wanna I’m afraid of that or there’s a shark in in there
(47:19) um but uh even though I don’t know what a shark is because we’re tribal species now and yeah anyway uh but uh but then there’s the other type of fear that that really is accelerated over the last in recently and that’s what we’re all experiencing is is this like the Imposter syndrome all of this you know all of these head fears that you were talking about so that’s really powerful and how we bring that into Parenthood is so um you know just being aware of it and acknowledging it like you say I think is
(47:44) so so important um and um and yeah so feel good fatherhood you’re that’s a so if you’re looking for that on YouTube it’s at feel good fatherhood uh so you could search that on YouTube um so Jay I I do want to know though because you mentioned you you achieved a career that was you know uh a lot of people dream of being like a video game designer right a lot of kids would like say man I want to design get my kid says that he wants to design games so uh how did you find that experience and and like what eventually
(48:20) shifted your perspective onto moving into personal Brands and and uh what you’re doing now I loved every minute of it even the icky gross messy abusive toxic Parts um again I wouldn’t change any of it I like it’s it’s this gift that it’s this gift of the past that sucked going through it that present like present me could be like oh man like look what I’ve done yeah like I I think of I’ve mentioned David Goggins before like I think part of the reason why they go through hell week if you know anything
(48:54) about Seal training there’s hell week look it up um if the part of that reason is that like you’re building the muscle like if you’ve or if you can overcome that whatever the world throws at you you’re fine yeah right then and so like I went through my time at video games like having this dream and pushing it out and publishing three Marvel games working at um Sony Online Entertainment which was the you know they’re the originator of EverQuest working with one of the original uh staff members his name is
(49:25) Jeff um love you buddy um working at the Dream Studios I got to visit the riot campus the only campus I haven’t visited is the blizzard campus and that’s the the one who knows like if you’re if you’re one of my old colleagues and you’re listening to this I would I would love to to go to the Blizzard campus and and I know you guys have a Starbucks maybe we can get coffee or something like that uh it’s it’s it’s one bucket list thing so we’ll figure that out at some other time but absolutely you know
(49:53) like I think from the perspective of I’m aligned this is what I want to do and I’m doing it felt amazing I mean but it was hard and there was content so and I always said this and and so even in the perspective I always tried to have when I was at my good points I had this perspective of gratitude there’s ten thousand kids behind me that would take my job in a heartbeat and for half of what I’m worth like in the industry it’s just always like and that’s this there’s a constant pressure when you’re in the creative
(50:26) world so everything’s super lock and key like your NDA to all ends of the Earth you can’t talk about anything because the stakes are real right Stakes are super real and um there’s launch Windows and like I’ve been through I’ve been through a point where a publisher screwed us over when we launched the title and it cost us millions of units wow millions of potential units right it costs millions of potential units because when they did the timing they released the big title of that year a week after
(50:59) if you know anything about game sales like they’re just done like yeah there’s certain Windows where it’s like okay is is Madden coming out you don’t release within a month of Madden is this coming out you don’t release within this this time frame so um it was just kind of a different time for for these kind of things and I you know I made big titles so you know I helped with a couple guitar Heroes and some other stuff I don’t really talk about but um lots of really great opportunity um
(51:23) I think but I think however whenever you get into any sort of um creative Endeavor where there’s a lot of personalities there’s gonna be a lot of friction and conflict and part of because I’m I like ownership here is that I wasn’t the healthiest person so I was bringing my own BS to the table and I created some friction and conflict uh and um but I was also on the receiving end of a lot of stuff that I think anybody today would say would be unfair uh in the creative world of movies TV shows reality TV video games
(52:07) most of those worlds it’s a very it’s not always healthy and I think that if I were to impart any wisdom to anybody would be um it’s never worth it to stay in a toxic environment it’s 100 I stayed in I stayed in the industry about four years two jobs too too long hmm and so if I were to go back I would have left on the high note and then figured it out yeah however however again I don’t I have no regrets it’s like hey I’m here who I am today because because I spent those extra four years
(52:44) what it really helped in those extra four years were when my daughter was alive so basically the moment for me when I had the biggest moment that I knew internally was a shift was I went to work it was a regular day it wasn’t even crunch time so just a regular day I went to work my daughter wasn’t awake right went to work left at a regular time drove home walked right upstairs woke up my baby sung a lullaby to put her back to sleep and I said man this is not the life you want yeah and I knew it in here I knew it
(53:19) right in my heart I knew it really deep it just took a while for me to figure it out to figure out like what’s going on because I was like I love making games I love this world I love like I get through all this cool stuff you know right that was kind of like my my head was saying all this stuff but my heart was like yeah but family you know and yeah I got this other thing that I want to take care of and these are the people I want to be with and I want to balance it and um so I had a reasonable amount of
(53:43) effort and time um in the industry it was a competency and I was trying to leave I tried to leave for a long time and everybody was saying like you have 10 years why are you trying to leave an industry mm-hmm like everybody like everybody ran up to they’re like why are you trying to leave just go get another job I was like I don’t want to freaking have the job like right I don’t want this lifestyle anymore I don’t want to Crunch I don’t want to and I’ve and I’ve said before if you’re in the industry and you’re a
(54:08) parent because I know most of my old colleagues are parents now and they’re still in the industry if you like the lifestyle and you love doing it keep doing it like yeah that’s not the judgment on me I’m not judging crunch like that’s just something that like the industry hasn’t figured out and maybe they won’t some studios don’t crunch some studios crunch all the time like whatever like right that’s just you get what you signed up for so you you know you reap what you sow you sleep in
(54:30) the bed you make so that’s your lifestyle but if you don’t want to do it anymore if if it’s costing you if yeah your life choices are costing you and you’re afraid and that was a thing for me I was afraid that I couldn’t build a life I was afraid I couldn’t like I I was afraid that this was the best it was going to be and so it just took me a long time to kind of figure it out and that jump that day I mean that day when I actually admitted that I didn’t want to do this anymore like I think I was done for a week
(55:07) mm-hmm like I I couldn’t I couldn’t function for a week because it really was the shedding of like there was an entire part of me that was being retired yeah so you so so that was a week how so how long be when once you made that decision that I don’t want to be here um did it take you to actually exit um that was very it was very quick yeah it was very quick um so um it was like the moment it was literally it was I made the decision I made the decision I was actively transitioning out and there was a downsizing so oh really
(55:50) yeah it was just like this thing was like yep okay here we go and so um you know like it was just kind of this the serendipitous thing and I kind of realized it was going on and like I had a mental break I thought like because I was uh there was next I guess next interview sure that was going on but um you know I just uh and it was really tough and it was really I had a lot of years where I was not earning a lot and figuring it out but now it’s you know I work from home I uh I walk my daughter my eldest daughter to her uh
(56:28) kindergarten bus stop like the first time um I’m I would get home I get to help her with things like that you know we’re gonna go roller skating so sorry future honey uh we’re gonna go low skating um which she adores and loves and we’re gonna go do that and um and then for the my youngest I’m gonna do the same thing yeah and but it’s it’s all because I decided that what I wanted in the long term was that availability I wanted to be present I wanted to um I want to cut the commute times out of my life yeah I want
(57:07) to to be present and the reality of being a parent is that a lot of a lot of the mannerisms of work are not conducive to raising in children and yes um if you’re listening and you’re from New Mexico uh New Mexico has just done um a Statewide initiative whether it’s state sponsored child care that’s what they spent their coveted money on or at least that’s the that’s as I understand it there’s probably way more complicated things in there um but good on you New Mexico good on you for helping parents
(57:46) um because we need it we need the help yeah definitely and and that’s you know that’s a great way to you know a note to end on as far as where you’re where you’re going because it ties it all in a nice little bow and finishes the circle is that you know if you’re being a when you’re looking at being a father regardless of if you’re staying in a career you know or or or working on working from home no matter how much money you make how how where where you’re at in life as long as you’re able
(58:16) to be authentically you and present and and and you know and feel good as the podcast would say I think that’s that’s all we could hope for so I I really hope that Jay I know we’ve gone a little bit over here and I’m grateful that you’ve spent some extra time with me because all of that was so so valuable and um um and definitely everybody check out the feel good fatherhood podcast and Jay where can people anywhere else people could find you or anything else you’re doing yeah um so I’m most Act active on LinkedIn so
(58:48) if you want to connect with me I love it shoot me a DM like either follow me shoot me a DM I kind of post the episodes and I love having a direct one-on-one conversations uh that’s that’s probably the best place um pretty much wherever else I’m gonna look I’m a lurker so or you can um if you if you really want to um I would absolutely love it if you listen to some episodes and comments uh just some comments and engage and let me know what you liked what you didn’t like and stuff like that like really just uh
(59:18) people that are participating and learning from the wisdom of collective other fathers that’s the entire purpose the whole idea is we can talk to each other um it’s a resource for you so if you want to take a listen it’s it’s out there for you yeah well it’s it’s a it’s it’s a it’s a huge Endeavor and a wonderful one uh at that and it’s a great show and um and I’m grateful that you’re you’re doing that work because we need more of that out there we need to you know
(59:45) fathers we need we do need to know that we’re not alone we need to be able to um you know get that value from one another so thanks for putting that value out there thank you so much I appreciate yeah and thank you Jay and thanks to everyone else out there for listening hope you got a lot out of this episode if you did please uh please hit the Subscribe button and uh and give me a rating a review and thank you yeah wherever that thing is right um thanks thanks so much for uh joining us look forward to catching you next
(1:00:15) time see you soon thanks hey everyone Thanks for tuning in to the flow over fear podcast if you’d like to learn more about getting into flow and learn the foundations of flow I have a free video series on my website at www.adamcliffordill.com called the foundations of flow feel free to go there and download it and start your journey to Rising above fear and achieving greater flow in your life if you like this episode and I’m guessing you did if you stuck around for this long then please do me a favor and hit
(1:00:48) the Subscribe button and you will receive notifications when I have new interviews new Recaps and new trainings that pop up on YouTube thanks again for joining us [Music] thank you