How to Find Grace In Grief With Kristen Hartnagel

Well, thanks for tuning in everybody. I have an exciting show today, because I have known my next guest for almost a year now. And she has helped to shape the trajectory of my personal brand. And if you like, if you like what you’re seeing here, I would suggest that you approach her her name is Kristen Hart Nagel, and she is an amazing, amazing person. She is the CEO of evolve. Now, having been a part of for startups, Kristin has worked with New York Times best selling authors, award winning talent agents, and celebrities as well as billionaire influencers. As a keynote speaker, professional singer, we’re going to talk about that. And business coach Kristin helps you evolve into your next level of greatness in your business and your life. Kristin is also a certified trainer for infinite possibilities, a program to develop your ability to see the future for what is possible, and not be constrained by limiting beliefs. How you show up to share your gifts and talents really is a spiritual endeavor. And Kristin is the master at drawing out your best. As a founding team member of the global personal branding company brand builders group of which I am a member. She helps her clients build and scale their businesses and personal brands. Kristin is on a mission to help you release the past, live in the present and take charge of your future. And I’m so glad to have you here. Kristen, thank you for being here.

01:35

Wow, what an honor Adam, I mean, I have seen you through all of the stages of I have an idea to now this is a full fledged business you have a an amazing podcast, and I’m just so excited to see everything that you’ve evolved through, it’s been super fun to be a part of your journey.

01:55

Thank you. And I know you have an incredible journey as well. And just the work that you’ve helped me the things that you’ve helped me to level up in the last year have been amazing. You know, it’s it’s changed my brand completely. I was a triathlon coach. Now, I’m a I’m a leadership coach, and I talk more vulnerably about fear and, and everything just feels right because of your help. And I’m grateful. I’m grateful for that. And we’ll we’ll dig in. But I want to, I want to kind of start because we share a common passion. And I want to dig into that first. Because you incorporate music into your cue notes. You’re a musician, and I would love to hear about that, because I love music. I’ve played music all my life. I found it to be highly therapeutic, highly. It just gives me energy. How do you incorporate that into your keynotes and into your healing practices?

02:49

That is a great question. You know, I think the reason I became a speaker is kind of through the journey of being a vocalist and a performer. As I was being asked to sing songs that I had written songs that my sister and I co wrote together at some churches in the area, some new thought and just kind of like the spiritually open minded churches, they were asking me questions about like, how did you come up with that song? What inspired that song like that song moved me so much. I would love to hear more you should speak. And that was like just a seed that was planted. And I’m like, Okay, well, if if I were to speak, I would want to speak about what I know. And what I feel like I know, is my own spiritual journey, my own kind of how I have come to the place where I am being at peace being fulfilled, being happy. And that is the inspiration for all of my songs. And so I’ve been asked to speak for these new thought churches, Unity churches all over the country. And that stemmed from from singing. So to me, music communicates at the level of the Soul. It bypasses the thinking mind. I mean, we can be transported if we hear a song, we can have a flash of where we were when we heard it the first time. And, and there’s something that happens psychologically, when we hear somebody speaking about something we’re assessing. We’re saying, Do I believe that? Is that true for me? And we don’t do that with music, music. We’re like being entertained. It kind of goes through any kind of filter, and it sits with us and some people just are moved by the melodies and don’t even pay attention to the lyrics and others are really looking at every single word and moved by the lyrics, but either way, it comes into your being in such a different way. So when people asked me to do a keynote I I often just asked, Would it be appropriate for your audience to weave in some songs that have a message of their own, that kind of reinforce what we’re trying to do for the people who are going to come and see this. And sometimes it’s a fit, and sometimes it’s not. But when it is, it’s super fun for me.

05:17

That’s so true. And you’ve, I feel like you’ve really tapped into something there. That’s a powerful niche. Because, you know, it’s like when you watch a movie, and imagine, I always imagine if you watch the movie without the music, there’s no movie there. Right? I mean, there’s nothing there. There’s no story. But what makes the story in the in those movies, and it is the music, it brings out that emotion brings out that power. And just to and even bringing that back to keynotes that I’ve seen I mean, there’s been some powerful keynotes. But they require a powerful story to powerful entertainment, and to bring music into that, I think is a really, that’s, that’s a hugely powerful benefit. And I think that you’re creating a memorable experiences for the audience there. So that’s, that’s, that’s profound. And then, yeah, so. So what, what drew you to speaking, what was the what was the? What was the catalyst that got that started? How did you get into that?

06:15

You know, I feel that there are so many people who are on their own journey, and they’re looking for breakthroughs. And just in sharing in small groups, in my one on one coaching in, like, I used to do this thing called Sunday Movie meetings where we would watch something like an inspiring video that really kind of challenged current thinking, and then we just had a conversation afterwards. And there were people who were just like, man, you have such a different perspective, I would love to hear more. And so that really, that and the singing lead to more stage time, and just when people responded, it felt like I was in the right spot. And so if there’s a way that I can serve people’s expansion and people’s spiritual growth, and that speaking, I love it, it’s just really become part of something I, I want to do more of,

07:10

yeah, did your story that your personal story play into that at all, just into your passion for what you want to bring to the stage or into the world?

07:19

It absolutely did. So I lost my mom and my dad and my sister in a short amount of time, and people were wondering, like, how can you still be so happy, like, that’s tragedy after tragedy after tragedy, and yet to be in your presence, you just still radiate such joy. And like, that’s an honor to hear that. And it made me think, I think people are struggling with grief, I think people like they aren’t processing it well, and there’s been a lot of fear and a lot of loss, and people aren’t navigating that to the best of their ability. And they even people who are really dialed into their spiritual journey, they’re like, I know all the tools, why aren’t I experiencing more peace or fulfillment or, or Grace after grief? And so I think, I think that personal journey has lent itself well to being able to help from the stage.

08:17

Yeah, and I’d love to dig into that a little bit more, because that sense of loss and grief is, as you say, there’s, there’s, and we’ve all experienced it, a lot of people in my audience have experienced that. And that that may be the root of their fear. That’s the root of where a lot of my fear comes from, is this this grief, that of things that I’ve experienced, or that I’ve gone through, and I know that that’s resonating now, you know, as we’re coming out of, of this uncertainty of COVID, as we’re going through economic uncertainty, or, you know, loss of loss of loved ones. How, how do you maintain that joy? And how do you? How do you? How do you process that grief? Can? Is there anything that you can share to help help people to get through that process?

09:09

Yeah, I really feel that it is a it’s a individualized thing. There isn’t a one size fits all way to go through grief. I think the biggest recommendation that has worked for me and worked with a lot of the people that that are my clients is to honor where you are and to detach. And so one of my three steps in a typical breakthrough coaching session is to detach with amusement, because we can get so we kind of feel like we are our thoughts. And when we can understand that our brain is the generator of thoughts our brain is thinking thoughts because that’s the function of that Oregon, and realize that the brain is just doing its job, it’s thinking thoughts, and I am not my thoughts. I am more way more the essence of what I am is spirit and I’m in a physical body. So I say, to detach with amusement so that you can become a witness to the thinking and to say, Hmm, like, what is this? Is this a pattern of thinking is this the brain just having a thought fire through neural transmitters down a well worn path. And it’s really not what I want to be thinking. It’s hard to say that when it comes to grief, because I don’t want to say detach with amusement, it’s not really amusement that we want to use in that instance. However, if we can detach and say, this is an emotion that is here right now, I’d like to honor that it’s here, I’d like to let it move through me. It’s like grief can be an amazing visitor, we just don’t want to let it move in. Yes, you can be my honored guest. And I’m going to just be present with you. But I am not going to let you unpack your bags. And so this detachment process can be it’s almost like, I know what I’m feeling. I know what I’m thinking. Now, how long do I want to feel this way? And it can be 10 minutes, it can be 10 hours, it can be 10 days, 10 months, but my gosh, I don’t want it to be 10 years. And so it’s like a it’s like that witness of a let you be here. I just don’t want you to take over. And that just that little bit of detachment helps us make a decision about that.

11:48

Yeah, so stay stay for tea, but not for not overnight. Not no. Yeah, we don’t have any beds available.

11:54

I like that stay for tea, not for an eternity. Yeah. Pillar point, didn’t

12:01

you? That is why you’re a brand strategist. I swear that is incredible. So, so the amusement part. I mean, I know that a lot of people might struggle with that, because of finding amusement and grief. I know. We tend. And this may sound strange, but a lot of people and I include myself in on this may find comfort in that victimhood in a way like feeling like the victim, it because at least it’s the comfort we know, instead of this comfort, we don’t know but but I noticed a theme here because I just talked with another friend on who is on this podcast, Mike Ergo who lost over, you know, 29 of his friends in in Volusia when he fought there and, and you know, so obviously, the grief that he went through is was incredible. But the but how he kind of found that peace, or started to find some of that peace was through somewhat of a dark humor. And so there’s like there was amusement that he found there. And so you said it was highly ambiguous, individualized? Would you say that that’s kind of where that’s coming from? Is finding your source of what that amusement is? Or how do you how do you justify the amusement part of it within grief?

13:19

Yeah, it’s, it’s a difficult one, because we are so close to it, you use the word victim. And that can also be really hard to hear when you’re in the throes of grief. But we have to understand that what we’re allowing our minds to think, is a choice. And often when we’re in the throes of emotion, we don’t see that there’s a choice. We think that this, like who else would feel any other way. And so if we can step aside and say, when I’m taking myself too seriously, or when I’m thinking that I am the thoughts that I think I can really get lost, and I don’t want to spiral out of control. Like I still have a reason if I’m still here, there’s a reason for me being here. So I’d like to find out what that is. And I’m not trying to wish grief away. I do think honoring it is super important. It’s just and it still comes in waves like it’s not a one and done. But to find the humor is it in it is to say, Oh, there I go again. It’s like the synapses are firing these thoughts. I’ve been in grief. So now that’s a new well worn pathway. That’s a new pattern of thinking. But I’ve committed to doing something else besides living in this grief. And so I want to recognize this is kind of back to the detachment detachment with amusement and the ability to introduce some humor is to say, my brain is just doing its job. It’s triggering a thought it It’s, it’s like it’s wanting me to pull up a chair and watch a movie. But I know how the movie ends, I’m still here. Maybe I’m still sad at times, but I don’t have to pull up the chair and watch the whole movie, I can say, wait a minute, I would rather like I want to take ultimate responsibility for how I feel. And there’s a balance between honoring grief and deciding not to let it move in. And that balance is honored, like, I’m going to stay here, but not forever. And then I’m going to use all the tools that I have access to, to help me recognize there’s more and what could another choice be. So I like to think of that the part of your brain that is doing that well worn pathway trying to get you to pull up a chair and watch a movie. It’s not evil, it’s not, you know, it’s not trying to make you stuck. It’s just doing its thing. So instead of getting mad at my brain, I would rather treat it like an innocent baby, and oh, they’re their little brain, I know what you’re trying to get me to do. You’re trying to make me go down that rabbit hole, again, you’re trying to get me to watch that movie. And I’m not going to do that this time. Or, or I am for 10 minutes, or I am for two hours, or I am for the day. But I’m committed to more and so that there’s a little bit of humor in that it’s like, I’m just gonna let you try and do what you do. But recognize that you’re wanting me to go somewhere, I’m not willing to go anymore. And then differently.

16:35

That’s yeah, that’s, I appreciate that. Because that that kind of brings into perspective what, what that really what that really means of detaching, but through through amusement, it’s, it’s almost like it’s an all of these tools, the individual tools bring us back to the present, you know, it’s just, it’s just a moment of presence. And, you know, and and some of those of us who use humor, because I use humor a lot, too, even though people might not think it’s funny, but you know, I do, but they the but but the whole thing air is it’s, it’s really just kind of bringing it into the present. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s either snapping somebody out into this new moment or, but but those kinds of moments of recognition, and, and really what I’ve find mindfulness to be is, is it’s it’s awareness and curiosity. I mean, so you’re aware of what your thoughts are doing in whatever way shape or form that looks like, and then getting curious about it. And you kind of dig, you get a lot into that. That mind fullness kind of aspect to and, and I think you have something that’s called the Miracle mindedness where you are Kind of practicing that, what is that? So what does that process? What does that look like?

17:52

Miracle mindedness to me is exactly what you said, it’s being fully present. And I love your, you know, flow over fear or from fear to flow. Because anytime that we’re not fully present, it’s typically, because we’re thinking about something that we can’t control, which is the past, or thinking about something that we can’t control, which is the future. And so if we can instead just like say, this moment right now is where I want to take responsibility for how I feel, and I want to feel good. And so miracle mindedness is that state where it’s almost a surrender to, I want to be shown, what is mine to do. And I know I’m going to get guidance, when I can stop my own outbound need for control. It’s a control thing to, to want to know how I’m supposed to do something. And I draw my how to, from past experiences, or from future thinking about ways other people have done it. And what I would rather do is be fully present to you show me what is mind to do. When my sister was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She like asked spirit. Well, what am I supposed to do with this? And she heard, well do it differently, have fun with it? And she’s like, have fun with a cancer diagnosis. And yeah, so she decided she was going to call it her cancer dance. She was going to spell the word differently. Instead of c a n d e r. She spelled the word answer with a capital A and a lowercase c in front of it. It did not exert power over her in some ways. Whether she was aware of the answer or not. She knew it was an answer of sorts, because we believed my sister and I and I In the spiritual community, it’s like, everything that’s happening is happening for us, I may not understand it, I may not even like it. But I have to trust that if it’s happening, it’s in divine order, or it wouldn’t be happening. And so mine is to just get out of my own way and say, show me what this is about, what am I to do with this. And so she decided she was not going to look online, she was not going to research everything there was to know about her diagnosis. And she instructed everybody, if you need to do that for you. Go ahead. But please don’t share what you’ve learned. I want this to be my experience and have it unfold for me as it in such a unique way. Because it is as individual as a fingerprint, like my journey is my journey. And she was in Stage Four for seven years going in and out of remission. She lasted a really long time, wow. through that. So this ability to say like miracle mindedness to me is saying, I don’t want to draw from Kristen Enos, I don’t want to draw from my past, which would project some future through a filter. And I don’t want to be trying to pick from a number of possible futures, because I can’t control that either. Instead, Miracle mindedness is allowing that state of grace to be guided to receive intuition or downloads. And I feel that really closely because when I write songs, they come to me in their entirety, the the melody and the lyrics, and I better get somewhere where I can jot that down or recorded into my phone or it’s gone. So those downloads happen, and they only happen if I’m out of my own way. And I’m kind of open for that. So we want to quiet that outbound energy. And in meditation, that’s like a gift we give to allow more that’s always there for us to actually reach us.

22:02

Yeah. Wow. God, I can definitely relate to that idea that that the, that if you think of a song that that time you lose it, if you don’t write it down right away. I’ve been in board meetings where I’ve just thought, Oh, that’s a great song. And then I lose it, because I can’t write it down. But yeah, but would you say that? So obviously, you know, having a family member, a loved family member with a stage four cancer for seven years? I mean, that’s, that’s tragic. And I mean, very painful to have to go through as a loved one. Would you say that the joy that she was able to find, you know, the, the amount of joy that she was able to find in that and the way she reframed it in some way? Did it help you and your family to, to really, I guess, find the joy as well? Or was it? Yeah.

22:58

And when we worked on that together, it was very much like, don’t get me wrong, there were moments where she would be real with me and and cry and even say the words I don’t want to be going through this. Less why me? I don’t think she ever went there. But just like, I can choose something different. Like I don’t like this. But most of her journey, the vast majority of her journey was in acceptance. Like she wasn’t saying, I’m going to let the cancer do what it’s going to do. She was employing every spiritual tool she knew and going through traditional and naturopath like, just open to what should I be exploring. So she created her chemo savvy. She got a group of friends who would go to her chemo treatments and she called it chemo dream Oh time, they would sing. She would kiss the bag of toxic chemicals. I mean, she made it a new ritual, any chance she could to make it feel good. And I think that that elation and that choice and that just ability to reframe every moment, was a huge gift. And so we worked on that together in the times when it wasn’t as easily accessible. I helped reminder. And and then she helped remind me, she’s like, you are going to miss me more than you could ever imagine. But I just want you to know, I will still be there in some capacity. And yeah, it’s been a beautiful. We called it delicious. Because when she got diagnosed, it was as if both our parents said, Oh, hell no, there’s no way a child is going to go before us and they both died. But she stayed around long enough to be with our mom when she made her transition and with our dad physically, when he made his and then I was with her when she made hers. So we’ve been kind of on the same spiritual plane for our whole life. I was, and I wouldn’t want to take any of that away, it is a sacred time to be with someone when that is happening to them. And we were able to remind each other how to be joyful in that journey, every chance we could,

25:15

that’s a, I am so grateful that you’re willing to share that openly, because there are people that need to hear that I know that there’s people that are going through similar things. And, and, you know, cancer is such a prevalent thing in our society. And so it’s just, you know, this idea of, of grief or having to go through things, it’s easy to say, Why me in those situations, you know, and but what you’ve demonstrated there, and what you’ve shown it within that loving community of transition, even the language that you’re using there is powerful, because it’s providing a new meaning to that whole scenario, it’s providing a whole new meaning, you could it could have been seven years of y-me. But instead, it was seven years of, of joy, love, and just strengthening that relationship, so that it’s still with you today. And I just, I want everybody who’s going through that, to hear that. And I hope that they I so love that you’re you’re communicating that message, as hard as it must be to communicate it.

26:24

Oh, thank you. I mean, I think I I’m very grateful that I had the kind of job where I literally could be there. You know, as a coach, I could go to the hospice or hospital, room to the side and do my coaching and yet then be present when I wasn’t coaching, and what a gift, like not everybody has that opportunity. But the the ability to be with someone and just hold the space, I think grief hits us so hard, because we’re the ones missing them. Somebody’s passing is way harder on the people who are still here than the people actually doing it. And there’s story after story about people finally crossing over when they get permission. And I think when we’re in the throes of how can we keep them here longer. That lack of permission can actually extend the amount of what we would perceive as suffering. And, and so even though I didn’t want any of them, like that’s my whole nuclear family, I’m the only one left. But I would I would not have wanted to extend their stay on this earth for my benefit. I was able to try to the best of my ability to hold the space for what they were experiencing and make it about them and how could I? How could I help with what they were going through and, and humor led a lot into it. There was a time when Lauren was Lauren as my sister close to the end. And she was mad. She was like, I don’t understand why I’m still here. Like I am so ready. Why can’t I just go now. And I’m like, you know, everything is energy. And we know that when we can be responsible for the way we feel it’s going to help. And right now your energy is angry. I don’t know if that has anything to do with why you’re still here. But what if we worked to shift that? Like, what if we said, oh my gosh, when you finally go, you’re gonna have the most amazing reunion because mom and dad are right there waiting. And let’s just get excited again, and and see if we can shift that. So that was her commitment. And every day, I would go to the little calendar and I would rip off a day and she would say today’s an amazing day to die. Today’s a great day to die. And we just tried to stay light and humorous. Now that doesn’t mean I didn’t go somewhere else and cry. But I was able to hold the space for what she needed. Because she was so ready.

29:03

Yeah, well, you can experience you can experience multiple emotions at the same time, like love and love and sadness exist in the same capacity in the same way. Yeah, and and and I guess our attitude toward it. I mean, it’s just, it’s just such an inspiring story of what you’ve done and you’ve leaned into you’ve, you know, you’ve leaned into this idea of joy, amidst tragedy amidst grief. And it is amidst that, you know, it’s that kind of grief for even the challenges we face that that we can find our meaning and you found that and would you say that that experience those experiences have kind of shaped where things like the alchemy of joy have come from with you? Oh, yeah, touch on that. Yeah,

29:49

yeah. So the alchemy of joy is one of my keynote titles. And, to me, Joy is our natural state. If if you can zoom out from our human experience, the state of the essence of what we are like the spiritual state is joy. But in my opinion, and when we’re in this human experience, we have these ups and downs. And we are, we’re the ones who assign any meaning that an experience has, we would call something good or bad. But to me, it’s way more than our labels of it. And so it’s only bad if I let myself assign the label of it being bad. So if I can believe that joy is my natural state, then I can see anything that is less than joy is a gift. It’s a gift to bring to my awareness that there is something in me in need of healing. And when I heal it, I can return to joy. So in that sense, everything is a gift. In fact, my sister wrote a book, holy shift, everything is a gift. Because of this philosophy we kept turning around together, it’s can we see that everything that’s happening is happening for us no matter what it looks like, and so anything that feels like a contraction, or I don’t want to be here, it’s not going to last forever, as reliable as breathing contraction is followed by expansion. But don’t get used to it. And don’t set yourself up for disappointment that that should be the destination, it will always be followed by a contraction. And so if that is as reliable as breathing, then when I’m down here, instead of hating it, and giving a lot of energy to the evidence of what is, why not just say I can’t wait to see what’s next. Right? Like, it’s gonna be followed by an expansion. So this might suck, but I know that expansion is coming. I don’t know what it is. I’m gonna get out of my own way. I’m going to ask for guidance, and I trust you are bringing it right. And then in here in this expansion, like, Man, I can’t stress enough that why should we ever think that there is a destination where we should arrive? When we no longer feel the ups and downs of life? That is crap. Like the even the most spiritually enlightened, we were gonna have those ups and downs? It is because what feels like a contraction is an opportunity to be the witness and say, Why don’t I like that? Why doesn’t that feel good? What is mine to do? What is mine to learn, so that I can return to my natural state of joy. And I want to do that more and more quickly, more and more readily, more and more dependably, let’s call that Mike, like my bounce back factor, I just don’t want to stay here long. I want to figure out what that is, so that I can expand again.

32:51

Wow, I love that it gives us an opportunity to be mindful to have that mindfulness and get curious about it. I love that. And, and, you know, it speaks to the fact that when we’re going to go through these ups and downs, you know, we have to have the downs to have the UPS. I mean, you have to have that if we’re always having ups. There’s a hedonic adaptation that occurs. And we were just going to get used to that as our new normal. And so we have to have that challenge in order to overcome it. I mean, so I love that embracing aspect of it.

33:24

And that’s what I mean by the alchemy of joy, you are an alchemist, when you say this thing is not who I am, I have the chance to transmute this energy into something that may be not joyful, but at least less oppressive. And so I want to use my skills as an alchemist to make decisions. I want to think about things differently.

33:52

Right? Yeah. So and how do with within all of this work that that you’re doing in finding joy and doing this amazing work? Of helping people to find that joy? How does that translate into how you’re helping leaders, how you’re helping brands, how you’re how you’re, how you’re really working in the world to lift other people up?

34:14

Man, I think those are different questions. Because like leaders, there are so many leaders who have life parts of their life in different silos. Like they have this rich spiritual connection. And then they go to work. And so they’re coming to me saying, I want to be able to imbue the work that I’m being called to do with the truth of who I am spiritually. And I’m struggling with that. And so how can you help me shift that and so we just talked about having, how do you have conscious conversations? How do you come from a place that serves the greatest and highest good, not just the agenda of the company or the pressures that you have as a leader? And so there’s a lot of work like For that, when it comes to a personal brand, I would say that joy comes into play when people inevitably feel impostor syndrome. As we get clear on who we’re being called to serve, and how we’re going to do that, we suddenly think, Who am I to be to think I can do that. And then we start comparing, like, this is not new. There’s so many people saying this. But the bottom line is with billions of people on the planet, if you find out what that truth is for you, if you claim that North Star, you are a magnet to the right fitting people, and so we’re not going to slay the dragon of imposter syndrome, once we’re going to slay that dragon daily, or moment by moment, because we have to remind ourselves building a personal brand is really not about me, it’s about the people I’m being called to serve. It’s about me stepping up getting out of my own way, allowing myself to be very vulnerable, and present. And, like, I think, personal branding, a decade ago, people thought it was a vanity play, thought it was like, Oh, you just want to be another like a Kardashian wannabe kind of thing. And now we’re really getting clear. No, as a species were evolving. We do not want to put our money into a company whose leaders are hiding behind the reputation of the company, we would much rather do business with companies whose leaders values align with our values. But if you don’t have a personal brand, how does somebody know that if you aren’t out there, and it’s not that you’re trying to be showy, it’s that you are establishing what you stand for, in a public way so that people can feel oh, you are my person, or you’re not. And that’s just as important. Because when people feel they’re not your people, you aren’t wasting your time with them, and they’re not wasting their time with you. So who are you? And how can we articulate the problem, you solve your uniqueness? How you do what you do in such a way that the right fitting people are magnetized to want to work with you?

37:19

Right? Yeah, I and I struggled with that, too. I mean, and you mentioned it, it’s a daily process of struggling with that impostor syndrome. I, I struggle with that daily, and it’s huge. And I think that plays a role into what you were talking about, where, where I fell into that same boat of Yeah, I mean, I don’t want to be narcissistic, have this personal brand, and put myself out there like a Kardashian and all this kind of stuff. And but, you know, but then I think that’s one of the things that that you helped me to understand, is that we all do have, everybody has personal brand, everybody has a reputation. That’s really what it is. And so now, it’s all about, alright, how do you want to? How do you want to spark that influence, because as leaders, now we have a responsibility to use that influence that we have in the right kind of way, and in a powerful way, and when it’s aligned with our values, when it’s aligned with our mission and our power? Well, that’s, you know, where our personal brand lives,

38:17

let there be no mistake, you have a personal brand. If you haven’t created a personal brand, then it’s been created, unintentionally. You know, because a reputation a personal brand is nothing more than what people think of when they think of you. So if you’re not crafting that with intention, coming from your character, then it’s happening by accident. And so we just want, and that’s hard work to really pull out from you what you already know about who you serve, and how you want to serve them. We’re too close to it to be able to do that for ourselves. And there’s a lot of assumptions that are misunderstandings, like, I don’t want to niche down because that implies that there’s people I don’t want to serve. And really what I do is going to help the whole world, no doubt about it. But if you try and appeal to the whole world, you end up appealing to nobody. So part of refining and declaring who you are, what you do, how you do it, and who you do it for is more so you can break through the noise and be seen for that person that you want to be the person for this thing. And that only happens with that kind of clarity. So the more we kind of hide behind that. I don’t want to upset anybody. I don’t want to turn anybody away. I don’t want to I don’t want to have this be like a, an ego thing where I’m out there. Those are misconceptions. And we just need to educate people that being out there is your willingness to be vulnerable, even when it’s uncomfortable. It’s your willingness to stand up for something, and publicly let people know who you are and what you’re about. Knowing that some people are gonna go, you’re not my person and that some people just aren’t willing to do that. But when you are, it actually helps you grow your business in miraculous ways, because it’s just that clarity.

40:19

So finding, yeah, finding that clarity. That’s something that you all helped me do tremendously with with this process is find clarity. And, and it seems like it became not easy, but simpler to at least be okay with the naysayers, so to speak that that aren’t aren’t okay with it. But that yeah, that that impostor syndrome is powerful. I mean, would you say? What is it fair to say that that impostor syndrome is rooted in fear that, that it’s rooted in fear of pushing past that?

40:55

I would, I would say imposter syndrome is just like the new trending way to say lack of confidence and lack of confidence is basically a fear of how are people going to perceive me. And it’s, there’s nothing wrong with coming from ego. But as soon as we can recognize my playing small, my lack of confidence, my giving into fear, or impostor syndrome is a play of the ego. The more we go, Ah, I’m not going to let the ego run the show. I am committed to doing this. And so the ego is also a gift. The ego is demonstrating for you that you have this fear. And that fear is something that you can move beyond if you recognize it for what it is the fear is encouraging me to stay in my comfort zone. My comfort zone is what I know, my comfort zone is safe. How can I serve more people? If I’m going to stay safe? So yes, I would definitely say impostor syndrome is fear, in a not so clever disguise, after all,

42:10

yeah, do you? Do you still deal with that? yourself? I mean, you’ve worked with billionaires, you’ve worked with all sorts of influences and leaders and you you have this incredible reputation. Do you still deal with it? And if so, how do you manage it?

42:27

I appreciate what you’re saying, because you’re building me up so well. But you could look at my social media and know I still suffer with impostor syndrome. I don’t put myself out there as consistently as I teach other people to do. And just to be transparent, that happens, because I play the game. My ego is saying, you’ve got so many people to serve, you can’t possibly make time to do that. Like I’ve got all these clients to serve. No, that’s just crap. I need to be more disciplined about putting myself out there more consistently. So I think even the best of the best would admit that imposter syndrome or fear of showing up is still a dragon that they need to continue to slay.

43:13

Yeah, so it’s a it’s a constant, constant battle. That’s, that’s really, really good to know. And I think that could be encouraging to a lot of people that they’re not alone in this, in this impostor syndrome thing, just recognize it. And I love that you’re flipping it on its head. And saying that, you know, playing small, or giving into that ego in that way, is, you know, it’s it’s, you know, it’s letting your ego play it. It’s almost selfish to play small, when you have these talents to give.

43:44

And if I took my own advice, I would say, Kristen, it is not about you, by not showing up there are people who will not know about how you can help whether it’s building a personal brand or helping leaders or, you know, spiritually open minded people with breakthrough coaching. They can’t know about you if you’re not out there. So I have to continue to be more brave.

44:08

Yeah. Well, speaking of putting you out there. I want our audience to know that you have a webinar, a webinar that can help them so can you speak to that? Can you promote it? Can you tell us where where they could sign up for because I think what you’re offering here, what you’re, what you’re promoting is is hugely valuable for leaders for people who just want to experience more joy for people who want to build that personal brand, so Oh, what? Yeah,

44:36

thank you so much. Yeah, so breaking through belief barriers is a free webinar that I recorded and people can go through it at any time. And if they just go to my website, which is Kristin Hart nagel.com And then there’s a forward slash get started dash v t BB that’s breaking through belief barriers, and we can have a link in in the Call in your show notes as well. But that’s a chance to go through the three step process. So we talked about step one, which is detaching with amusement. But in this webinar, we’re going to talk about steps two and steps three as well, just so that you can know that a limiting belief is that which wants to keep you comfortable. It’s that which wants you to pull up a chair and watch a movie that you know, you don’t want to watch anymore. And so this is a three step process to break through that.

45:27

Yeah, well, thank you for that, I would, I would highly recommend that everybody who’s listening to this jump on that webinar and check it out. Because that is that that is one of the most important things we can do is break through our own belief barriers so that we can serve the world in the way that we need to. And Kristen, I want to thank you for helping me over the last year to do just that, with my brand to help me help me have the courage to rise above the fear that I have to put this out there and, and to build my brand and recognize that that is my reputation. And to do that with so many others, through brand builders through evolve now, through everything you’re doing. So thank you so much. Where can So you mentioned your website, is that the best place for people to find you or is there anywhere else that you’d like to ask people to find you?

46:16

Yeah, well, Kristin Hart nagel.com is really where they can see kind of everything that I’m doing, but I’m on Instagram and LinkedIn and all the all the places. So the Kristin Hart Nagel, that might be hard to spell H AR T and a GL. But let me just say it’s been an honor and a privilege to just walk alongside you and help in any way that I can as you’re building something amazing to help people go from fear to flow. So thank you for what you are doing in the world.

46:46

Thank you, Kristen. It’s, it’s my honor. It’s my pleasure. So grateful you’re here and until next time, everybody. Have a great day. You too.